AW: help with writing an ASL sentence for an academic paper

Mon Sep 9 14:36:07 UTC 2013

Hi Nancy and everyone, 

thank you for your message. 

“Well one thing for sure, if there's 12 signers there will be 12 opinions on
how to sign something.”   Yes – this is my experience every day – smile. 

In addition to that – In these days that we can use this ingenious invention
of SignWriting we can put some effort to avoid variations that are not
intended. Everybody knows this kind of change of a given sign according to
the "Chinese Whispers" method.

SignWriting allows us to write exactly what you want the signer to do, ...
For the purpose of dictionary entries this is important ...  

On the other hand ... It is not my main interest to discuss signing. I love
to discuss spelling .. so once you decide to write a given sign it is
interesting to me to understand the description of this sign in order to
perform it exactly the way as the scribe would do himself if he/she has
written this given sign correctly.

“What ends up is that when we read written sign language, we read it the way
we sign it (at least I do) anyway. “

This is interesting. So your brain just catches the idea, the concept of the
given sign – but you do not follow all the hints and rules that are
expressed in the SW-spelling. Sometimes it is fun to watch my students
signing a new “GebärdenSchrift-Document”. 

Now and then it happens that they read “mother” written in GebaerdenSchrift
but instead to perform the sign as it is written they sign a different sign
for “mother” ... always funny to watch. 

On the other hand – I agree and this is one important aspect of SignWriting.
Even if there are documents with lots and lots of spellingproblems .. the
skilled SW-reader should find his way to understand.. 

All best 

Stefan 

  _____  

Von: SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages
[mailto:SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU] Im Auftrag von Romero
Gesendet: Montag, 9. September 2013 00:45
An: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU
Betreff: Re: help with writing an ASL sentence for an academic paper

Well one thing for sure, if there's 12 signers there will be 12 opinions on
how to sign something.

What ends up is that when we read written sign language, we read it the way
we sign it (at least I do) anyway. 

This is probably no longer a concern, but the way I actually write LANGUAGE
is the following, without any twisting, since written twisting with
simultaneous moving in any direction, in my experience, has not been very
easy to read:

Nancy

p.s. I have my own dictionary, over 7000 signs (ASL Bible Dictionary). 

On Sep 8, 2013, at 1:45 PM, Stefan Wöhrmann <stefanwoehrmann at GOOGLEMAIL.COM>
wrote:

Hi Cherie

thanks for clarification ;-))

Stefan

  _____  

Von: SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages
[mailto:SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU] Im Auftrag von Cherie Wren
Gesendet: Sonntag, 8. September 2013 22:26
An: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU
Betreff: Re: AW: AW: help with writing an ASL sentence for an academic paper

When i sign "WRITE"  the palm is not perfectly facing to the side or to the
front; instead it is kind of diagonally facing my right shoulder.  So when
the right hand 'writes' on it, is moving diagonally forward/right.  The
arrows are correct, the palm facing is an approximation.  Its too much
trouble to delve into the diagonal palm facings for everyday writing...

cherie

  _____  

From: Stefan Wöhrmann <stefanwoehrmann at GOOGLEMAIL.COM>
To: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU 
Sent: Sunday, September 8, 2013 4:18 PM
Subject: AW: AW: help with writing an ASL sentence for an academic paper

Hi Charles and friends of the sw-list,

Well – there may be a misunderstandig.

I discussed the spelling of two different ways to  write the term “write”
... I have got no problem to understand the sign for write with the zig-zag
motion in the end. Of course you can literally “write on your left palm
parallel to the floor” like this.

Compared to that there is a different spelling  of “write” left palm facing
the signer. So I would rather expect the right hand moving left to right
instead of diagonally forward to the right ... ;-)

All best

Stefan

  _____  

Von: SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages
[mailto:SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU] Im Auftrag von Charles Butler
Gesendet: Sonntag, 8. September 2013 13:56
An: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU
Betreff: Re: AW: help with writing an ASL sentence for an academic paper

Only a partial answer "with the Delegs Editor" is parallel to "with
SignWriting". SignWriting is a methodology that can be a program (the
SignPuddle) or by hand so "with" is the appropriate preposition. 

The zig-zag movement on SignWriting is stylistic form for finishing a
sentence. The double motion of "writing" above is imbedded in a sentence so
one is continuing a thought. It is not inconsistent if one thinks of the
zig-zag as a double motion with a "written" return. The motion may be
exactly the same. 

Charles Butler
chazzer3332000 at yahoo.com
240-764-5748
Clear writing moves business forward.

  _____  

From: Stefan Wöhrmann <stefanwoehrmann at GOOGLEMAIL.COM>
To: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU 
Sent: Sunday, September 8, 2013 5:41 AM
Subject: AW: help with writing an ASL sentence for an academic paper

Hi Valerie, Nancy, Adam, Maria, Guido and friends of the sw-list ;-)) ,

I love to discuss this kind of documents. SignWriting is such a wonderdull
tool to discuss different aspects of any given SL performance on a solid
foundation.

This is a typical example. Somebody tries to translate a given concept
(idea, phrase, sentence) to ASL ( or DGS...whatsoever..)

Now different competent signers may offer their  w r i t t e n   answer to
this problem.

What can be seen again and again ... there is not the one and only possible
translation.

Even if the sequence of signs may be the same there are still lots of
possibilities to make individual (perhaps meaningfull) differences ... In
this case the facial expressions...

The good point is that we can discuss our “examples” in detail. We can learn
from each other. We can look at the documents as long as we want to
(compared to video ... ;-)

We can easily rewrite or change the document if we wish to.

Looking at your document Nancy – I have a question. (Same question goes to
Adam  ;-)) )

 I tried to rewrite your sentence with the US- SignPuddle Dictionary. I do
not get the same signs this way. Does this mean that you write this kind of
document from scratch with SignText?   

Nancy, I  would like to discuss your spelling of “Language”  - the way you
wrote it both hands move back and forth at the same time. Is this the way
you want to sign it?

Another spelling question:  “written” second sign in the right column.  Left
palm facing you, right hand is moving diagonally forward  instead down or to
the right  ... mh ... compared to your spelling of SignWriting (left hand
palm up, right hand writing zigzag on the palm) the first spelling seems to
be somehow inconsistent. (Although there is no doubt about that everybody
should be able to understand the idea – smile)

Now a discussion apart from SignWriting and spelling...

Both of you (Nancy and Adam)  write a sign for “with” –mh –   (Maybe just
because Maria asked for a sentence including this  “with”)

Do not know ASL but  here is my question – from my point of idea “with” is
kind of  “with a pen” or “with my friend”    or...”with the delegs Editor”
but “written with (????) SignWriting?

I am looking forward to your answers.

All best

Stefan

  _____  

Von: SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages
[mailto:SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU] Im Auftrag von Romero
Gesendet: Sonntag, 8. September 2013 01:56
An: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU
Betreff: Re: help with writing an ASL sentence for an academic paper

<image001.jpg>

Here's an example of an example:

Facial expression eyebrows up, index finger points down 2x (This)

Fingerspelling for ASL

2 horizontal lines for a pause

Sign for AMERICA (fingers intertwined, making a small horizontal circle)

Sign for SIGN (2 index fingers travel in vertical oblong circle,
alternating)

Sign for LANGUAGE ( "L" handshapes facing floor moving outward while
rotating)

2 horizontal lines for a pause

Sign for SHOW (flat left hand, right index touching palm of L hand, both
move forward together twice)

Sign for WRITING (flat L palm, R hand as if holding pen moves diagonal on
floor plane, 2x)

Sign for WITH (2 "A" handshapes together, baby fingers toward the floor

Sign for SIGN (shown previously)

Sign for WRITING (former sign for WRITE with zigzag writing movement. This
is only one variation)

2 horizontal lines for a pause

Fingerspelled S and W (another way to sign SIGN WRITING)

Thick horizontal line for the end of the sentence.

On Sep 7, 2013, at 4:41 PM, maria galea <signwriting.maria at gmail.com> wrote:

Dear list members particularly ASL users,

A friend of mine who happens to be a linguist in the field of writing
systems of the world is hoping to include the mentioning of SignWriting as a
writing system of the world, and he has asked if someone could translate the
following sentence into ASL SignWriting:

"This is an American sign language example written with SignWriting "

If you could add sign-to-meaning correspondences, syntactic factors, and
lexical selection considerations would be helpful for him.

Thank you! It would be great if SignWriting makes its way into the academic
field of writing systems, so thank you very much for helping out with this
(i can't do it myself, because I'm not an ASL user)

best regards to everyone!

maria

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/sw-l/attachments/20130909/03049458/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image001.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 2412 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/sw-l/attachments/20130909/03049458/attachment.jpg>