Ordering Signs in Dictionaries

Jonathan Duncan duncanjonathan at YAHOO.CA
Thu Aug 14 10:10:04 UTC 2014 

Hello Andre,
     Wouldn't each directional sign entry be sorted one after another 
according to the rotation in a specific order of rotation Charles is 
describing?  Can you give us a short example of what you mean?

Jonathan
On 8/13/2014 10:47 PM, André L wrote:
> Hello,
> sorting by the rotation of the hand may not be effective in LSQ 
> because of directional signs.
>
> André Lemyre
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 22:05:50 -0400
> From: duncanjonathan at YAHOO.CA
> Subject: Re: Ordering Signs in Dictionaries
> To: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU
>
> Hi Charles,
>     I watched your talk again today.  I realized that what I call 
> "Sign Sequence" you call "Sign Spelling".  I guess it is "SignSpelling 
> Sequence".  So I didn't understand that the first time.  So now after 
> this more attentive listening to your talk, I see that you definitely 
> are using SignSpelling Sequence for all your entries and that you are 
> doing them manually the same way Val suggested in the SignSpelling 
> Guidelines.
>     Am I correct in my understanding that which symbols come first in 
> the sorted list is different from the way SignPuddle is sorting?
>
> Your sorting would be sorted by the
> 1. First by symbol in the sign sequence's basegroup of the first hand 
> in the SignSpelling Sequence
> 2. What figure (See the individual chapters)? *I need more explanation 
> about this one.*
> 3. The for each basegroup sort by fill
>
> 4. In each fill sorting, sort by rotation *( but not distinguishing 
> between right and left hands.
> I see you number both from 1 to 8 in instead of numbering them all 
> from 1 to 16)*
>
>
>
>
> 5. Location symbol. comes after hand symbol when comparing.
> From first to last
> No Body - hand to hand, head, body
>
> 5.1 Location sorting on hand *contact order doesn't seem to be defined 
> yet*
>
> 5.2 Head location sorting
>
>
>
>
> 5.3 Body body
> Indicate the location of the body, placing the graphic in the left 
> lane, the middle lane, or
> right lane. - *Need this explained I'm not understanding.*
> *Needs to have numbering for which comes first for body location**
> *
>
>
>
> 6 - What is contact? No order, any can come first.
>
>
> 7.7 - Finger bends (ie no order)?No order, any can come first.
>
>
> 8 - Movement? Vertical, then Horizontal, then Arc - up / down, up / 
> abaxo + rotation, then up / down bow
> after / below + arc rotation, face bow, face bow + rotation
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Need to define which come first within the vertical, and which come 
> first within the horizontal, etc.**  Or just current default currently 
> in ISWA2010
> **Need to define movement symbols in other planes, etc.
> ***
>
>
> 9 Timing. *Which comes first?*
>
>
>
> 10 Faces and posture.
> *Not sure about this one, would like more explanation.*
>
>
> Also you need to output a dictionary that has,
>
> hand
> spelling
> sign
> Portuguese
> ASL
> english
> Quote
>
> Do you currently have any way of keeping all this information in Sign 
> Puddle?
> SignWriter Studio can do
> spelling
> sign-LIBRAS
> Portuguese
> English
> Source
>
> I was hoping to add a second SignLanguage to do a dictionary with two 
> sign languages but I haven't programmed that yet.
>
> I am still working on finalizing the output for the dictionary.  So I 
> am looking for your input whether you use it or not.
>
>
> Please fill me in where I am lacking and correct me where I am wrong.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jonathan
>
> On 8/12/2014 4:47 PM, Jonathan Duncan wrote:
>
>     Hi Charles,
>         I enjoyed your symposium *“Ordering Signs in Dictionaries”
>     http://www.signwriting.org/symposium/presentation0010.htmlgro
>     <http://www.signwriting.org/symposium/presentation0010.html>
>     * I was wondering if Steve and Val had been able to find you a
>     solution.  Val mentioned that she thought that Steve would have an
>     easy way for you to do your sorting.
>
>
>     I would like to implement a sorting algorithm for SignWriter
>     Studio as I haven't implemented any yet and I am starting to
>     produce a Honduran Sign Language dictionary.
>
>
>     I understood how you are doing the ordering comparing hand shapes,
>     comparing rotations, comparing facings, comparing facial areas,
>     etc.  I like it very much.
>
>
>     A couple things I wanted to ask.
>
>     For your algorithm to work properly does the sign sequence of a
>     sign need to be filled out?  I am getting the impression that your
>     sorting could sort dictionaries without the sign sequence, is this
>     assumption correct?  Or would it sort signs according to the
>     symbols in sign sequence?  It doesn't seem to take into account
>     the order of the symbols in the sign sequence, is this correct?
>
>     Also do you have another document comparing the other symbols like
>     movement symbols, etc?  If so could you send it to me?
>
>
>     Thanks
>
>     **
>     -- 
>     email: duncanjonathan at yahoo.ca <mailto:duncanjonathan at yahoo.ca>
>     joyoduncan at gmail.com <mailto:joyoduncan at gmail.com>
>     Cel Honduras: (504)3141-1171
>     Tel USA: (347)875-8442
>     Skype: yojoduncan
>
>     SignWriter Studio <http://www.signwriterstudio.com/>
>
>
> -- 
> email: duncanjonathan at yahoo.ca <mailto:duncanjonathan at yahoo.ca>
> joyoduncan at gmail.com <mailto:joyoduncan at gmail.com>
> Cel Honduras: (504)3141-1171
> Tel USA: (347)875-8442
> Skype: yojoduncan
>
> SignWriter Studio <http://www.signwriterstudio.com/>
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-- 

email: duncanjonathan at yahoo.ca <mailto:duncanjonathan at yahoo.ca>
joyoduncan at gmail.com <mailto:joyoduncan at gmail.com>
Cel Honduras: (504)3141-1171
Tel USA: (347)875-8442
Skype: yojoduncan

SignWriter Studio <http://www.signwriterstudio.com/>


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