Ordering Signs in Dictionaries

Fri Aug 22 00:21:44 UTC 2014

Hi Val,

On 8/21/2014 10:20 AM, Valerie Sutton wrote:
> That is why it is important to realize that there is not one theory on 
> the SignSpelling Sequences. My SignSyllables seem to be working, but 
> within the SignSyllables there are choices that are hard to make - not 
> every sign is easy.
>
> That is why we have a flexible SignSpelling Column to begin with, and 
> why the writer has to take the time to put in their theory on 
> SignSpelling Sequences…
Yes I remember you and Charles talking back in forth about having 
different SignSpelling Sequences.  I am keeping the SignSpelling 
flexible like in SignPuddle.  What will be different with this is that 
we will be trying charles, SignSpelling Sequence and possibly change the 
sorting of some symbols within the ISWA2010 if needed.

> Because in SignBank I learned that my theories were originally not 
> right for me…that I could not look up a sign by Location easily - that 
> looking up by handshape was necessary - I did not learn that 
> automatically - it took many years of trial and error -
>
> So there is no such thing as the 100 per cent “correct” sequence - 
> there will be norms and there will be dictionaries sorted under one 
> editor’s theories -
>
> So the Private Web Puddle, which is what we are talking about for 
> Charles, will only give you one theory on sorting - and there is a 
> good chance that Charles, like all writers, and especially me, may 
> change his mind on his own theories -
Charles theory on sorting is feels right to me.  So I want to explore it 
and maybe we will change some things down the way if we see that some 
things can be improved or go back if it isn't better.   I am getting 
SignWriter Studio to do normal sorting like SignPuddle does but with the 
flexiblity for the above mentioned if needed.
> Let me tell you what I learned -
>
> The only way to really know if a SignSpelling theory seemed to be 
> working, was to have at least 3000 signs - you need a lot of signs 
> sorted the same way. Because you need many examples including unusual 
> signs and they don’t come up until you have a larger dictionary.
>
> Once you have your 3000 signs, you need to print them in PDF, and hand 
> the printed document to a signer or two, and preferably to a classroom 
> of sign language students and ask them to find a certain sign. Watch 
> them try to find it - try to “look it up” in a thick document - I have 
> not tested it enough myself…each theory has to be tested…and it can 
> only be tested on large numbers of signs…
Well it's a good thing that we have the Sign Puddles with so many 
signs.  3000 is a lot of signs to SignSpell especially if we decide to 
change a theory on the spelling.

Thank you for sharing your experience.  If we don't succeed on the first 
theory, we will know that it is normal.
Thanks

Jonathan
>
> More soon -
>
> Val ;-)
>
> --------
>
>
> On Aug 21, 2014, at 6:08 AM, Jonathan y Yolaine <joyoduncan at GMAIL.COM 
> <mailto:joyoduncan at GMAIL.COM>> wrote:
>
>> Hi Val,
>>     That is a great idea.  If Charles could have a private puddle but 
>> anybody could export it.  Then I could get signs that have the 
>> correct SignSpelling Sequences to work with too.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jonathan
>> On 8/20/2014 12:08 PM, Valerie Sutton wrote:
>>>
>>> I agree with you that you need a private puddle to do your sorting 
>>> routines because the public SignPuddles have different contributors 
>>> and we may not be sorting exactly the way you would do it - so for 
>>> you to really test your theories of sorting, you will need your own 
>>> private puddle -
>>>
>>> Let me talk to Steve about this and we will get back to you -
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> <dacdghhh.png>
>>
>> email: duncanjonathan at yahoo.ca <mailto:duncanjonathan at yahoo.ca>
>> joyoduncan at gmail.com <mailto:joyoduncan at gmail.com>
>> Cel Honduras: (504)3141-1171
>> Tel USA: (347)875-8442
>> Skype: yojoduncan
>>
>> SignWriter Studio <http://www.signwriterstudio.com/>
>>
>> ________________________________________________
>>
>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>
>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org 
>> <mailto:sutton at signwriting.org>
>>
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>
> ________________________________________________
>
> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>
> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>
> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>
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>
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-- 

email: duncanjonathan at yahoo.ca <mailto:duncanjonathan at yahoo.ca>
joyoduncan at gmail.com <mailto:joyoduncan at gmail.com>
Cel Honduras: (504)3141-1171
Tel USA: (347)875-8442
Skype: yojoduncan

SignWriter Studio <http://www.signwriterstudio.com/>

________________________________________________

SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION

Valerie Sutton
SignWriting List moderator
sutton at signwriting.org

Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu

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