Hello,
what you suggest is exactly what I am working on and how I want to do it.
We will exchange lather on this...
Here is a rough sample. It will also shows how to write with a pencil.
It would either use real signs to show the concept in a context or only the concept itself.
André Lemyre
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 00:28:01 +0100
From: iroald at HOTMAIL.COM
Subject: Re: Animations to teach signwriting
To: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU
This all seems great, and if anyone has the strenght and the time to see this through, it is amazing.
Personally, I would suggest a smaller project for a start: animations to teeach the meaning of the movement symbols and the contact symbols, and other symbols that cannot be fully explained by still photos.This could be done on a language- free manner, and thus would benefit all who is trying to learn SignWriting, regardless of hearing status or language/s known.
The explanations we have now, are often dependent on knowledge of Englesh and/ or ASL, and I must admit that y understanding sometimes is not good enough. Many of my Deaf Norwegian freinds have had little opportunities to learn any English, as the powers that was did not consider that possble or neccessary for deaf persons when they were young.
So for a start, could we go for animations showing the use of movement symbols, contacts, dynamics and the like? Thsi would also make a foundation for the bigger works you are talking about,
Ingvild
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 17:26:14 -0500
From: andre-andre at HOTMAIL.CA
Subject: Re: Animations to teach signwriting
To: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU
This is the avatar, you have to download a software then it runs.
http://hebergcck224.rnu.tn/ws/index.php
This is a conference by Mohamed Jemni
http://talentsearch.ted.com/video/Mohamed-Jemni-An-avatar-capable
From: andre-andre at hotmail.ca
To: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
Subject: RE: Animations to teach signwriting
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 17:16:57 -0500
The avatar is a 3D character that signs like a human. Like from a video game.
It translates English, French, arabic writen texts by using SignWriting descriptions.
This is more powerful than animated gif. The animated gif is closer from the written form. That is why it can help learning to write.
Because the avatar and gif animation are competing solutions for almost the same needs, we need to discuss to put energy at the right place.
The avatar already exists. It has a huge team.
For more information about the avatar refer to the the tunisian team who worked on an avatar that translates SignWriting in a 3D animation. Yosra Bouzid and Mohamed Jemni.
http://tiger.uvt.nl/pdf/papers/bouzid.pdfhttp://www.utic.rnu.tn/francais/websign.html I will try tomorrow to find the link were you can interact with the avatar. I used it once. It works for ASL, tunisian sign language and more...
André LemyreDate: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 11:09:38 -0800
From: freddyfingaz83 at YAHOO.COM
Subject: Re: Animations to teach signwriting
To: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU
I would like to get my fact straight. In our vocabulary, Does avatar means 3d animated interpreter? If so, yes Im very interested to be involved however I feel animated signwriting should be different group away from 3d animated interpreter. I do believe 3d animated will be more suffice because its most exciting for general average people.
Dale Archuleta
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
From:
André L <andre-andre at HOTMAIL.CA>;
To:
<SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>;
Subject:
Re: Animations to teach signwriting
Sent:
Thu, Jan 9, 2014 5:25:45 PM
Bonjour Mohamed JEMNI,
Bonjour Yosra BOUZID,
il y a présentement une discussion sur le forum général de SignWriting sur la pertinence et la faisabilité d'utiliser des animations en format gif pour enseigner l'écriture de langue signées. Ces animations mettaient en mouvement les symboles standard de SignWriting.
Une extension de cette idée est d'intégrer ces animations dans les dictionnaires de SignWriting comme sign puddle. Il serait alors possible de traduire automatiquement de longs textes en mode animation. Ce concept est très proche de l'avatar que vous avez développé.
Pourriez-vous vous joindre à nous pour cette réflexion?
Merci
André Lemyre
En attachement vous trouverez les discussions précédentes et un exemple
d'animation.
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 07:42:43 -0600
From: duncanjonathan at YAHOO.CA
Subject: Re: Animations to teach signwriting
To: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU
Hi Andre,
One of the great chanllenges of using the current software for
animated GIFs is lining up one frame with the next.
Your idea of all frames having head, is a good idea for a center,
but if each GIF frame is a different size it will only be a little
help for aligning them. A solution with a fixed width and height
per animation would be better (it could be different from one
animation to another).
I was thinking on way would be to make a vertical line and a
horizontal line in the SignWriting as a reference. It would be have
to be big enough to fit all the animation we would want to write.
All frames would come out the same size and everything would be
referent (centered) to these lines.
M596x597S37a00403x404S37a00403x452S37a00403x500S37a00403x548S37a0e404x595S37a0e452x595S37a0e500x595S37a0e548x595
The down side is that you would have to manually take out the lines
afterwards frame by frame.
Or
In SignWriter Studio these lines could even be white just like the
background. (Sorry no support for transparencies in SignWriter
Studio at this time). Then with a graphics program that does
transparencies change the white to transparent. Just don't use the
same white (maybe an offwhite) for the hands as for the background
and the lines.
Jonathan
On 1/8/2014 12:02 PM, André L wrote:
Such an editor would take existing signs and allow
manipulating them.
Example: Selecting a vertical hand would allow to puting it
horizontal to illustrate a rotation...
Such software should not be coded too soon. People need to
explore the possibilities. The proof of concept is starting.
This is my current process.
1- Import a dictionary in sign writer studio.
2- Select a sign.
3-Create a copy of the sign.
4-Edit the sign by selecting symbols to duplicate or reposition.
5-If necessary add a head. This defines where the hands will be
located.
6-Copy paste an image of signwriter studio in pain.
7-Resize the paint display.
-----transparency setting would come here----
8-Create several copies of the written sign.
9-Edit each file with the same name and a counter (file 0 is the
original written sign with extra transition symbols). The head
is my origin. It should not move.
10-Feed the files in a gif animator.
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 09:43:06 -0800
From: freddyfingaz83 at YAHOO.COM
Subject: Re: Animations to teach signwriting
To: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU
Yes, it sound like we will need to
developing "Animated Signwriting Creator" software
where it automatically set up rules and grids
template screen to positioning loops cycle for us to
follow to prevent errors. And capacity to format
transparent background
Dale Archuleta
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
From:
André L <andre-andre at HOTMAIL.CA>;
To:
<SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>;
Subject:
Re: Animations to teach signwriting
Sent:
Wed, Jan 8, 2014 5:25:35 PM
I agree with you that mixing
signwriting and videos will become an habit in
some future. The need cannot be delayed, we
would have to redo much work.
The template window frame for the gif may be
big. We must allow the character to extend
left and right arms. That would make a huge
white square on top of a video. Transparency
would hide less of the content.
Another example would be animated cartoons.
André Lemyre
Date: Wed, 8 Jan
2014 07:31:07 -0800
From: freddyfingaz83 at YAHOO.COM
Subject: Re: Animations to teach signwriting
To: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU
Andre Lemyre
There are several
reasons why transparent background
is needed but it is not required.
One of examples, if I want to put
animated signwriting on the
pictures or videos on fixed
opacity transparent background to
easy on eyes comfort to reading
without colors inpurterted matched
colors. It would be lot of work if
I have to modify GIFS personally.
I'm sure some of people has other
reasons.
Dale Archuleta
Sent from Yahoo
Mail on Android
From:
André L
<andre-andre at HOTMAIL.CA>;
To:
<SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>;
Subject: Re:
Animations to teach signwriting
Sent: Wed,
Jan 8, 2014 12:15:57 PM
Do you have an
example of a need to overlay
a sign to something else?
I think that I saw a free
gif animator 10 years ago
that supported transparent
beackground.
I will do a research.
André Lemyre
Date:
Tue, 7 Jan 2014 21:03:14
-0800
From:
freddyfingaz83 at YAHOO.COM
Subject: Re: Animations to
teach signwriting
To:
SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU
Hello
I
understood most
Editors programs
doesn't supports
transparent
backgrounds. I
feel its very
important to
have entirely
transparent
background
because it's
able to overlays
anything without
modification.
Dale
Archuleta
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
From:
André L
<andre-andre at HOTMAIL.CA>;
To:
<SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>;
Subject:
Re:
Animations to
teach signwriting
Sent:
Wed, Jan 8,
2014 4:23:30 AM
Hello,
I
agree with a
reserve.
We may want
the white
surfaces of
the hands and
the face to
remain white
if we display
the animation
on a coloured
background.
Also, in my
first
attempts I
used Microsoft
paint, which
does not
support
transparent
background.
Considering
that dictionnaries
have between
1000 and 5000
words, and
there are
several
contributors,
we need to
ensure ease of
creation to
make this
project grow.
Standards will
be important
to avoid
redoing the
work when
someone finds
a better way
to proceed.
Also, I will
contact soon
the tunisian
team who
worked on an
avatar that
translates SignWriting
in a 3D
animation. I
would start
with Yosra
Bouzid and
Mohamed Jemni.
http://tiger.uvt.nl/pdf/papers/bouzid.pdf
http://www.utic.rnu.tn/francais/websign.html
Conceptually,
our doing gif
animation is a
subset of what
the avatar
does in an
automated
manner. The
avatar may be
able to write
the gif
animations in
an automated
manner on a
large scale.
I such
scenario would
happen, our
best input may
become to
increase the
dictionnaries
size to "feed"
the avatar or
to help it
with
directional
words
(example: I
give you, you
give me).
Concertation
will be
important
before going
any further.
André
Lemyre
Date:
Tue, 7 Jan
2014 19:39:37
-0800
From:
freddyfingaz83 at YAHOO.COM
Subject: Re:
Animations to
teach
signwriting
To:
SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU
I
also agreed
rules needs to
be applied
before
processing the
animated
dictionary.
Such as size,
resolute,
aligned
positioning,
etc... I would
like offer to
add other
rule. All GIFS
should have
transparent
backgrounds.
In a case, we
will not need
to reformat
entire
dictionary in
future use.
Dale
Archuleta
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
From:
André L
<andre-andre at HOTMAIL.CA>;
To:
<SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>;
Subject:
Re:
Animations to
teach
signwriting
Sent:
Tue, Jan
7, 2014
1:57:39 AM
Hello
Jonathan and
Valerie,
I would prefer
to have the
animations with
the regular
dictionaries ,
just like the
optional illustration
or video but
distinct.
In a distant
future, the
translate
feature could
concatenate
the animations
in long
stories.
I will spend
some time
preparing
samples of
animations to
see how
symbols could
be used (good
and bad
examples). I
will provide
several
alternatives
for people to
compare. I
will make a
document to
open a
discussion
establish some
standards (not
my personal
preferences).
We do not want
an animation
of several
words being
misaligned,
shrinking and
growing with
blinking
fuzzy heads
with several
file formats
and
resolution.
We will need
the opinion of
Deaf people,
programmers,
teachers,
SignWriters,
children and
teenagers for
an acceptance
test. Speed
will be an
issue, I
expect Deaf
people and
fluent
signwriters to
prefer fast
videos (i.e.
at a signing
speed) while
beginners will
be lost.
André Lemyre
Date:
Mon, 6 Jan
2014 17:34:07
-0800
From:
signwriting at MAC.COM
Subject: Re:
Animations to
teach
signwriting
To:
SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU
SignWriting
List
January
6, 2014
Thank
you, Jonathan!
Val ;-)
——
On Jan 6,
2014, at 4:27
PM, Jonathan
Duncan <duncanjonathan at yahoo.ca>
wrote:
Hi Val,
With a few
small
modifications
SignWriter
Studio should
be able to
store and
display
animated
GIFs. Sounds
like an
exciting
project!! :-)
I would be
glad to update
SignWriter
Studio so that
it have the
animations.
Jonathan
On
1/6/2014 4:01
PM, Valerie
Sutton wrote:
SignWriting
List
January
6, 2014
Hello
André!
Thank you
for this
message and
for the
attached
PowerPoint -
It is good to
know that
PowerPoint can
accept
animated GIFs.
It looks
great!
I agree
that animated
SignWriting is
valuable as an
educational
tool…I think
others agree
too -
Would
you, or anyone
else, be
interested in
working on a
new project…an
Animated
SignWriting
Dictionary on
the web?
Take a
look at this
web page:
http://www.movementwriting.org/animation/sgn-US/
It is a
simple page
that shows the
sign written
in
SignWriting,
and to the
right of the
sign, is the
animated
version of it…
We could
have an entire
site devoted
to this
Animated
SignWriting
Dictionary and
Animated
SignWriting
Literature
idea…
It could
be a relaxed
project for
fun with no
deadlines or
any pressure
at all (I do
not like
deadlines or
pressure ;-)
Just
whenever the
whim hits, do
a few
animations,
and save them
in a file.
Then we can
post them in a
new site...
The
project could
be done for
any sign
language, and
essentially be
like a
SignPuddle
Online but for
animated signs
-
And that
brings up the
next
question….Steve
and
Jonathan…could
SignPuddle and
SignWriter
Studio store
animated GIFs?
Val ;-)
-------
On Jan 6,
2014, at 9:50
AM, André L
<andre-andre at hotmail.ca> wrote:
Hello,
Animations
might be an
intuitive way
to teach
signwriting to
deaf children.
It uses their
knowledge of
sign language.
The movements
make the
writing more
intuitive,
closer to
their
experience.
There are less
symbols to
read at once.
It is easy to
display on a
screen, a
computer or on
paper.
A teacher can
write on a
slide with the
mouse during
the class.
It is possible
to create a
power point
show (does not
require power
point to be
displayed).
Here is an
example of one
animated
word. It
could be a
sentence, a
small movie...
André Lemyre
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