FW: Animations to teach signwriting
Jonathan Duncan
duncanjonathan at YAHOO.CA
Mon Jan 20 19:33:12 UTC 2014
Bonjour Yosra Bouzid,
Je viens de jetter un coup d'oeil à
http://tiger.uvt.nl/pdf/papers/bouzid.pdf J'ai quelques questions.
Utilisez-vous encore SWML (SignWriting Markup Language) comme point de
départ du mouvement de l'avatar? Avez-vous été en mesure d'utiliser SPML
ou le BSW, CSW, KSW ou formats FSW disponible dans SignPuddle?
Quelles étapes manuelles avez vous besoin d'exécuter pour ajouter
l'informations manquantes nécessaires pour animer l'avatar?
Pourriez-vous s'il vous plaît nous donner des comparaisons d'un exemple
simple et d'une plus complexe de SWML et du SML Sign Modeling Language)
résultant et possiblement les étapes nécessaires pour se rendre du SWML
inicial au SML final? Avez-vous été en mesure d'automatiser une certaine
partie?
Pensez-vous que si nous aurions chaque trame du GIF animée en
SignWriting, ca nous ferait la génération de SML plus facile ou plus
rapide? Ou que nous pourrions tirer tout autre avantage quelconque de
cela pour animer l'avatar?
Cordialement,
Jonathan
Hello Yosra Bouzid,
I just had a quick look at
http://tiger.uvt.nl/pdf/papers/bouzid.pdf . I have a few questions.
Are you still using SWML (SignWriting Markup Language) as a starting
point for the avatar movement? Have you been able to use SPML or the
BSW, CSW, KSW or FSW formats available in SignPuddle?
What manual steps are required to add the missing information needed to
animate the avatar? Could you please give a simple example and a more
complex one comparing the SWML and the resulting SML (Sign Modeling
Language) and possibly the steps required to get from the original SWML
to the final SML? How much have you been able to automate some of it?
Do you think that if we had the each frame of the animated GIF in
SignWriting, it would make the generation of SML easier or faster? Or
that we could draw any other advantage from this to animate the avatar?
Regards,
Jonathan
On 1/9/2014 4:04 PM, yosra bouzid wrote:
>
>
> Bonjour André et tous les membres de SignWriting List,
> je voudrais tout d'abord vous féliciter pour le travail réalisé
> C'est fascinant de voir ces dessins s'animer en utilisant uniquement
> des symboles de SignWriting!
>
> En fait, notre approche repose sur l'utilisation d'un agent virtuel
> pour reproduire fidèlement les gestes manuels et non manuels
> représentés dans une notation de SignWriting.
>
> Par exemple, vous trouverez ci-joint des animations générées à partir
> des transcriptions des signes:
> - *désolé* en langue des signes tunisienne
> - *deaf* en langue des signes américaine
> - *oiseau* en langue des signes française
> (je suis désolée car les séquences vidéo ne sont pas de bonne qualité)
> (note: je vais les envoyer une par une pour ne pas avoir des problèmes
> de réception)
>
> Nous avons converti jusqu'à présent plus de 1000 notations et nous
> allons créer très prochainement
> un site web tuniSigner pour permettre aux participants d'évaluer la
> qualité des animations produites
>
>
>
> Hello André and all the SignWriting List members,
> First of all, I want to congratulate you on the excellent job you did
> It is amazing to see an animated gif from SignWriting symbols !!
>
>
> In fact, our work aims to interpret a SignWriting notation through a
> 3D virtual signer able to perform faithfully the exact gestures
> represented in the notation.
>
> For example, you will find attached the generated animations from the
> following transcriptions:
> - sorry (désolé) in Tunisian Sign Lnaguage
> - Deaf in American Sign Language
> - bird (oiseau) in French sign language
> ( I 'm sorry because the video is not of good quality)
> (I'll send the video sequences one by one for not receiving error
> notification in delivering message)
>
> Our system has converted until now more than 1000 notations and we aim
> to create, very soon, our proper website tuniSigner to allow
> participants to evaluate the quality of the produced animations
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 12:25:45 -0500
> From: andre-andre at HOTMAIL.CA
> Subject: Re: Animations to teach signwriting
> To: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU
>
> Bonjour Mohamed JEMNI,
> Bonjour Yosra BOUZID,
>
> il y a présentement une discussion sur le forum général de SignWriting
> sur la pertinence et la faisabilité d'utiliser des animations en
> format gif pour enseigner l'écriture de langue signées. Ces
> animations mettaient en mouvement les symboles standard de SignWriting.
>
> Une extension de cette idée est d'intégrer ces animations dans les
> dictionnaires de SignWriting comme sign puddle. Il serait alors
> possible de traduire automatiquement de longs textes en mode
> animation. Ce concept est très proche de l'avatar que vous avez
> développé.
>
> Pourriez-vous vous joindre à nous pour cette réflexion?
>
> Merci
>
> André Lemyre
>
> En attachement vous trouverez les discussions précédentes et un
> exemple d'animation.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 07:42:43 -0600
> From: duncanjonathan at YAHOO.CA
> Subject: Re: Animations to teach signwriting
> To: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU
>
> Hi Andre,
> One of the great chanllenges of using the current software for
> animated GIFs is lining up one frame with the next.
> Your idea of all frames having head, is a good idea for a center, but
> if each GIF frame is a different size it will only be a little help
> for aligning them. A solution with a fixed width and height per
> animation would be better (it could be different from one animation to
> another).
>
> I was thinking on way would be to make a vertical line and a
> horizontal line in the SignWriting as a reference. It would be have to
> be big enough to fit all the animation we would want to write. All
> frames would come out the same size and everything would be referent
> (centered) to these lines.
>
>
>
> M596x597S37a00403x404S37a00403x452S37a00403x500S37a00403x548S37a0e404x595S37a0e452x595S37a0e500x595S37a0e548x595
>
> The down side is that you would have to manually take out the lines
> afterwards frame by frame.
>
> Or
>
> In SignWriter Studio these lines could even be white just like the
> background. (Sorry no support for transparencies in SignWriter Studio
> at this time). Then with a graphics program that does transparencies
> change the white to transparent. Just don't use the same white (maybe
> an offwhite) for the hands as for the background and the lines.
>
> Jonathan
>
> On 1/8/2014 12:02 PM, André L wrote:
>
> Such an editor would take existing signs and allow manipulating them.
> Example: Selecting a vertical hand would allow to puting it
> horizontal to illustrate a rotation...
>
> Such software should not be coded too soon. People need to explore
> the possibilities. The proof of concept is starting.
>
> This is my current process.
> 1- Import a dictionary in sign writer studio.
> 2- Select a sign.
> 3-Create a copy of the sign.
> 4-Edit the sign by selecting symbols to duplicate or reposition.
> 5-If necessary add a head. This defines where the hands will be
> located.
> 6-Copy paste an image of signwriter studio in pain.
> 7-Resize the paint display.
> -----transparency setting would come here----
> 8-Create several copies of the written sign.
> 9-Edit each file with the same name and a counter (file 0 is the
> original written sign with extra transition symbols). The head is
> my origin. It should not move.
> 10-Feed the files in a gif animator.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 09:43:06 -0800
> From: freddyfingaz83 at YAHOO.COM <mailto:freddyfingaz83 at YAHOO.COM>
> Subject: Re: Animations to teach signwriting
> To: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU
> <mailto:SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>
>
> Yes, it sound like we will need to developing "Animated
> Signwriting Creator" software where it automatically set up rules
> and grids template screen to positioning loops cycle for us to
> follow to prevent errors. And capacity to format transparent
> background
>
> Dale Archuleta
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: * André L <andre-andre at HOTMAIL.CA>
> <mailto:andre-andre at HOTMAIL.CA>;
> *To: * <SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>
> <mailto:SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>;
> *Subject: * Re: Animations to teach signwriting
> *Sent: * Wed, Jan 8, 2014 5:25:35 PM
>
> I agree with you that mixing signwriting and videos will become an
> habit in some future. The need cannot be delayed, we would have
> to redo much work.
>
> The template window frame for the gif may be big. We must allow
> the character to extend left and right arms. That would make a
> huge white square on top of a video. Transparency would hide less
> of the content.
> Another example would be animated cartoons.
>
> André Lemyre
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 07:31:07 -0800
> From: freddyfingaz83 at YAHOO.COM <mailto:freddyfingaz83 at YAHOO.COM>
> Subject: Re: Animations to teach signwriting
> To: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU
> <mailto:SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>
>
> Andre Lemyre
>
> There are several reasons why transparent background is needed but
> it is not required. One of examples, if I want to put animated
> signwriting on the pictures or videos on fixed opacity transparent
> background to easy on eyes comfort to reading without colors
> inpurterted matched colors. It would be lot of work if I have to
> modify GIFS personally. I'm sure some of people has other reasons.
>
> Dale Archuleta
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: * André L <andre-andre at HOTMAIL.CA>
> <mailto:andre-andre at HOTMAIL.CA>;
> *To: * <SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>
> <mailto:SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>;
> *Subject: * Re: Animations to teach signwriting
> *Sent: * Wed, Jan 8, 2014 12:15:57 PM
>
> Do you have an example of a need to overlay a sign to something else?
> I think that I saw a free gif animator 10 years ago that supported
> transparent beackground.
> I will do a research.
>
> André Lemyre
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 21:03:14 -0800
> From: freddyfingaz83 at YAHOO.COM <mailto:freddyfingaz83 at YAHOO.COM>
> Subject: Re: Animations to teach signwriting
> To: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU
> <mailto:SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>
>
> Hello
>
> I understood most Editors programs doesn't supports transparent
> backgrounds. I feel its very important to have entirely
> transparent background because it's able to overlays anything
> without modification.
>
> Dale Archuleta
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: * André L <andre-andre at HOTMAIL.CA>
> <mailto:andre-andre at HOTMAIL.CA>;
> *To: * <SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>
> <mailto:SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>;
> *Subject: * Re: Animations to teach signwriting
> *Sent: * Wed, Jan 8, 2014 4:23:30 AM
>
> Hello,
> I agree with a reserve.
> We may want the white surfaces of the hands and the face to remain
> white if we display the animation on a coloured background. Also,
> in my first attempts I used Microsoft paint, which does not
> support transparent background. Considering that dictionnaries
> have between 1000 and 5000 words, and there are several
> contributors, we need to ensure ease of creation to make this
> project grow. Standards will be important to avoid redoing the
> work when someone finds a better way to proceed.
>
> Also, I will contact soon the tunisian team who worked on an
> avatar that translates SignWriting in a 3D animation. I would
> start with Yosra Bouzid and Mohamed Jemni.
> http://tiger.uvt.nl/pdf/papers/bouzid.pdf
> http://www.utic.rnu.tn/francais/websign.html
>
> Conceptually, our doing gif animation is a subset of what the
> avatar does in an automated manner. The avatar may be able to
> write the gif animations in an automated manner on a large scale.
> I such scenario would happen, our best input may become to
> increase the dictionnaries size to "feed" the avatar or to help it
> with directional words (example: I give you, you give me).
> Concertation will be important before going any further.
> André Lemyre
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 19:39:37 -0800
> From: freddyfingaz83 at YAHOO.COM <mailto:freddyfingaz83 at YAHOO.COM>
> Subject: Re: Animations to teach signwriting
> To: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU
> <mailto:SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>
>
> I also agreed rules needs to be applied before processing the
> animated dictionary. Such as size, resolute, aligned positioning,
> etc... I would like offer to add other rule. All GIFS should have
> transparent backgrounds. In a case, we will not need to reformat
> entire dictionary in future use.
>
> Dale Archuleta
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: * André L <andre-andre at HOTMAIL.CA>
> <mailto:andre-andre at HOTMAIL.CA>;
> *To: * <SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>
> <mailto:SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>;
> *Subject: * Re: Animations to teach signwriting
> *Sent: * Tue, Jan 7, 2014 1:57:39 AM
>
> Hello Jonathan and Valerie,
>
> I would prefer to have the animations with the regular
> dictionaries , just like the optional illustration or video but
> distinct.
> In a distant future, the translate feature could concatenate the
> animations in long stories.
>
> I will spend some time preparing samples of animations to see how
> symbols could be used (good and bad examples). I will provide
> several alternatives for people to compare. I will make a
> document to open a discussion establish some standards (not my
> personal preferences). We do not want an animation of several
> words being misaligned, shrinking and growing with blinking fuzzy
> heads with several file formats and resolution.
>
> We will need the opinion of Deaf people, programmers, teachers,
> SignWriters, children and teenagers for an acceptance test.
> Speed will be an issue, I expect Deaf people and fluent
> signwriters to prefer fast videos (i.e. at a signing speed) while
> beginners will be lost.
>
> André Lemyre
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2014 17:34:07 -0800
> From: signwriting at MAC.COM <mailto:signwriting at MAC.COM>
> Subject: Re: Animations to teach signwriting
> To: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU
> <mailto:SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>
>
> SignWriting List
> January 6, 2014
>
> Thank you, Jonathan!
>
> Val ;-)
>
> ——
>
>
> On Jan 6, 2014, at 4:27 PM, Jonathan Duncan
> <duncanjonathan at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> Hi Val,
> With a few small modifications SignWriter Studio should be
> able to store and display animated GIFs. Sounds like an
> exciting project!! :-)
> I would be glad to update SignWriter Studio so that it
> have the animations.
> Jonathan
>
> On 1/6/2014 4:01 PM, Valerie Sutton wrote:
>
> SignWriting List
> January 6, 2014
>
> Hello André!
> Thank you for this message and for the attached PowerPoint
> - It is good to know that PowerPoint can accept animated
> GIFs. It looks great!
>
> I agree that animated SignWriting is valuable as an
> educational tool…I think others agree too -
>
> Would you, or anyone else, be interested in working on a
> new project…an Animated SignWriting Dictionary on the web?
>
> Take a look at this web page:
>
> http://www.movementwriting.org/animation/sgn-US/
>
> It is a simple page that shows the sign written in
> SignWriting, and to the right of the sign, is the animated
> version of it…
>
> We could have an entire site devoted to this Animated
> SignWriting Dictionary and Animated SignWriting Literature
> idea…
>
> It could be a relaxed project for fun with no deadlines or
> any pressure at all (I do not like deadlines or pressure ;-)
>
> Just whenever the whim hits, do a few animations, and save
> them in a file. Then we can post them in a new site...
>
> The project could be done for any sign language, and
> essentially be like a SignPuddle Online but for animated
> signs -
>
> And that brings up the next question….Steve and
> Jonathan…could SignPuddle and SignWriter Studio store
> animated GIFs?
>
> Val ;-)
>
> -------
>
>
> On Jan 6, 2014, at 9:50 AM, André L
> <andre-andre at hotmail.ca> wrote:
>
> Hello,
> Animations might be an intuitive way to teach
> signwriting to deaf children.
> It uses their knowledge of sign language.
> The movements make the writing more intuitive, closer
> to their experience.
> There are less symbols to read at once.
> It is easy to display on a screen, a computer or on paper.
> A teacher can write on a slide with the mouse during
> the class.
> It is possible to create a power point show (does not
> require power point to be displayed).
>
> Here is an example of one animated word. It could be
> a sentence, a small movie...
>
>
> André Lemyre
>
>
________________________________________________
SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
Valerie Sutton
SignWriting List moderator
sutton at signwriting.org
Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/sw-l/attachments/20140120/9d490f3d/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/gif
Size: 1500 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/sw-l/attachments/20140120/9d490f3d/attachment.gif>
More information about the Sw-l
mailing list