[Sw-l] Report from Steve's desk

Sun Aug 9 16:15:06 UTC 2015

Hi Steve, 

thank you very much for your detailed answer. Of course I am not able to
understand anyhing of the software-secrets behind these developements but I
will share your answer with our delegs team. ;-))

Thanks for explaining to visualize FSW Data as SignWriting ... I checked it
with the Rand-Keyboard.  Wow ..this is cool. 

AS15a11S26500S30007M536x518S30007482x483S15a11513x478S26500511x460
M521x547S33100482x483S20310506x500S26b02503x520
AS15a10S2ff00S2b700M535x518S2ff00482x483S15a10523x485S2b700514x453
AS18527S1852fS20500S2fb00S22a07S22a11S14c27S14c2fM555x530S18527502x503S1852f
476x503S20500493x490S2fb00491x481S22a07516x498S22a11471x496S14c27529x471S14c
2f445x470

Can you look for the meaning of a sign once you know the FSW Data of a sign?

Thanks for informing me about the problems with SignMail.  I am sorry to
hear that ..it has been such a neat way to exchange messges with my
students. But we will find a workaround with screenshots and gifs  since it
is so easy and no problem at all to create a message with the delegs Editor
... Thanks for your feedback. 

Have a wonderful Sunday 

Best wishes 

Stefan 

  _____  

Von: SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages
[mailto:SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU] Im Auftrag von Stephen E
Slevinski Jr
Gesendet: Sonntag, 9. August 2015 01:08
An: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU
Betreff: Re: AW: Report from Steve's desk

On 8/1/15 9:58 AM, Stefan Wöhrmann wrote:

Hi Steve, 

Hi Stefan,

Sorry for the late reply.  I'm back from vacation now.  

As you already know I startet with the "Rand-Keyboard" Prensentation ..and
thanks to Yair`s kind support I am on my way to get more familiar with that
although there is still a long way to go to really understand..smile 

Hi Stefan,

I've appreciated all of your comments and investigations of the Rand
keyboard.  It is a very important development.  I was able to reference the
keyboard several times when I presented to the Unicode Technical Committee a
week and a half ago.

Your perspective and creations are appreciated.

My question to you about FSW:

M558x548S30a00482x482S14c21473x522S14c20535x482S28909509x511S33e00482x482
M642x590S31400533x489S37a06428x460S37906506x561S37906472x460S37906537x561S37
900427x460S37900427x483S37a00511x460S37900511x483S37906472x522S37906428x522S
37906566x483S37906593x483S2f800532x486S37e50568x496S37e5c568x499S37e54519x49
9S37e58520x496S36d00528x534S37802568x534S37809583x535S14c20580x507S37d00560x
514S37d01557x510S37d01554x509S37d00552x510S37d00555x517S37d09548x509S37d0954
8x518S37d00552x519S37d0a544x510S37d0c542x517S37d07538x517S37d0a541x510S37d09
538x515S37d09540x509S37d01541x518S37d01557x518S37d01560x511S36a10540x520S36a
10460x523S33b10433x471S34c10452x465S34810463x467S35d10431x481S34a10445x483S3
4810457x483S33b10482x486S36110432x509S35d10450x508S34810464x509S36520492x510
S2f804450x536S2fb06483x525S2fb02449x526S1002f495x468S37701512x495S37702517x5
15S21e10508x565S21e10533x565S21e10557x566S37b01577x562S37b09501x561S37b09498
x572S21e10504x572S21e10528x572S21e10552x572S21e10507x580S21e10531x580S21e105
55x580S37906499x588S37906537x588S37b01580x574S37b06569x588S15c12567x462S3771
05 77x457S3 7
b06583x480S37b06584x450S37800583x450S37800597x450S21700587x472S37e00601x462S
37e14600x470S37c00607x469S37712610x459S2fb00581x570S2fb05596x564S2fb01608x55
7S37716617x531S37716617x581S37710623x459S37a10637x535S37a10617x533S37d06623x
577S37d00624x540S37d00628x540S22700620x567S21700631x541S21c00623x551S21c0062
3x559S37710628x459S21c00626x472S31440540x500S31440553x500S31440547x507S31440
552x511S31440541x509S31440542x521S31440547x516S2fb06568x497S2fb02528x497S37d
00503x579S37d00578x578S34810430x497S36110459x497 S38700463x496
M523x558S20500513x543S18011487x528S31400482x482S33f10490x502S18019489x538
S38700463x496
M535x567S34800482x488S31400482x488S10043505x533S20500495x556S30120482x477
M588x519S36500437x482S34c00466x482S34800497x482S36100527x483S30007527x483S10
011560x489S22a07568x476S2f900577x467
M543x532S36e00477x520S37803513x477S15a12487x472S15d1a484x453S37803453x496S37
70b521x503S3780b454x466S31400482x482S33e10493x503 S38700463x496
M542x538S33e00482x482S15d20520x511S26600526x475S2f900527x463S31400482x482
M572x603S14c40466x525S14c48443x539S2fb04468x595S2e74c451x578S30a00446x482S34
000446x482S2e700475x564S34c00519x482S11511545x501S20e00554x536S22f04547x555
M561x557S14c01518x530S14c09456x530S26506546x538S26512436x534S36e00477x519S30
a00483x482S34010493x505
M527x577S33100482x483S20311503x498S23003501x520S37906476x575 S38800464x496
M555x537S33e00482x483S10001509x507S10009468x507S21100522x498S21100465x498S28
807535x501S2881f445x498S30a00482x483

 As far as I understand ...Your development of FSW - Data allows people in
the future to post messages written in SignWriting on any (??) website on
the Internet once the Unicode symbols are ...what? 

Unicode is not a magic bullet, but Unicode is the world standard.  It is
best to use a Unicode solution for your characters.   Formal SignWriting is
a Unicode string that has been stable for 3 1/2 years.  You can use Formal
SignWriting on any website today with varying degrees of work.  The Rand
Keyboard has a built in viewer that can be used on most websites.

As far as I know, there is no workable alternative to Formal SignWriting.
Some people still use an XML solution, but I wouldn't advice new projects to
use XML for SignWriting, unless it's SVG.

I recently argued against the Unicode 8 release.
http://www.slideshare.net/StephenSlevinski/sign-writing-in-unicode-8-issues
http://www.slideshare.net/StephenSlevinski/thanks-to-the-utc

People do not longer have to open these documents in a special SignWriting
Program but can look at nicely presented SignWriting notations.  Is that
correct? 

That is the ultimate promise of Unicode, but not quite. 

In theory, I have been promised a bi-directional conversion from the Formal
SignWriting of today into a Unicode solution of the future.  That means that
all of our current data would be compatible, but not quite.

Formal SignWriting correctly allows for the freeform positioning of symbols.
The user picks the position of the symbols.  This design feature has some
frustrations, but the advantages far outweigh the cost.

A future Unicode design of SignWriting may not allow the freeform
positioning of symbols.  People have talked about this for years.  The idea
is that a complex font will handle what the sign looks like.  This will
allow for people with different fonts to share the same data and have the
signs look different, but reasonable to the viewer.  I have been a skeptic
of this approach from the start.  

So the Unicode process is resetting I hope.  Some people are going to try a
future Unicode design.  Others will investigate my 2 Unicode proposals.  We
are several years away from anything useful in Unicode.

I personally like the freedom to create documents with different workflows
...So to type directly with the "Rand-Keyboard" would be fun. On the other
hand I do have a lot of practice and therefore this method is pretty
effective, I look for a program that "translates" search-words by
SignWriting-Entries

I appreciate different workflows as well.  Whether it's the keyboard or
mouse, whether you search by spoken language or you search by sign language
with symbols, locations, and orders; the important part is to write.

I especially appreciate writing fast and touch-typing in particular.  I
would love to have a touch-typing manual for the Rand-Keyboard.  The manual
should be repetitive and thorough.  After several weeks of drills, muscle
memory would start to develop.

...and look whether  YOU  opened the option to copy the FSW data. 

Can you please explain..what are the methods at the moment to get this kind
of Data? 

As far as I know: 

1) "Rand-Keyboard"

2) SignMaker 2015

3) SignPuddle   (Dictionary)

M602x606S2d320454x528S35000398x484S20300437x548S20300433x565S37806403x573S37
806452x556S34700428x484S36100458x484S35d04505x482S34c00535x482S33b00566x482S
10011558x576S10019534x576S10031558x533S10039531x533S2d606578x559S2d61e515x56
1

4) SignPuddle Literature Dictionary   (love that !!) 

AS1eb20S15a37S26a07S20e00M527x522S15a37473x483S1eb20486x503S20e00498x492S26a
07506x477
AS18720S18720S2d606S2d61eS20300S20300S2fb00M526x540S18720504x511S18720479x51
1S2d606504x484S2d61e474x485S2fb00492x478S20300506x460S20300480x460
AS18040S18048S26500S2f900S36100M519x584S18040488x569S18048466x528S26500489x5
49S2f900491x541S36100482x482
M533x530S15a56506x493S14c52480x474S20e00491x501S26c00484x515S22522467x470

There is the ASL Wikipedia.  You can get FSW data from SignWriter Studio.  I
believe Rachel Channon will have the FSW data available with the SignTyp
linguistic coding system data set in the future.

I hope to see others soon.

One secret you may not know is that FSW data responds well to a double
click.  This will select an entire sign.  You can either double-click the
visible ASCII coding as above or you can double click the SVG in the newer
FormalSignWriting applications.  After you double click to select the sign
(which may or not make a visible change), you can right-click (or
press-and-hold) to access the sub-menu to copy the data.  This works in the
new SignMaker 2015,  the SignWriting 2010 Javascript Library, and should
work with the ASL Wikipedia and the Rand-keyboard.  You'll have different
levels of success based on the operating system and browser.  

Last question ..do not feel pushed...You think some time  the wonderful
SignMail option will work again??  

Smile.  SignMail.  Such a great idea, but such the wrong way I did it.
SignMail is not compatible with the new servers and the enhanced security.
I have investigated SignMail for several hours and several days, trying to
find a way to make it work.  I have been successful in the past, but this
last time I lost the trail.  Somewhere in the middle, the emails go poof.  I
need to rebuild SignMail from the ground up.  Unfortunately, it's a lower
priority.  Luckily, the newer tools are making development easier for myself
or another programmer who decides to tackle the idea of SignMail.

Regards,
-Steve

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