[Sw-l] [SPAM] RE: Question on hand orientation

Sat Jan 13 18:09:41 UTC 2018

Hi Valerie, yes you understood my question exactly, and our posts crossed 😊.  If the symbols are not in the ISWA then I don’t think constructed symbols would help me in our current project, because constructed symbols are generally not easy to translate.

Every writing and transcription system has its limits, and I completely understand why you decided not to use these diagonal orientations because in ordinary writing they are not required.

But I believe signwriting does have another  future as a transcription system for signs.  And for transcription, it may be worth pondering this issue of three way diagonals.  The reason is that in many cases, the easiest hand position is a diagonal position, and if we want to look at how signers naturally place their arms, I think we will hit these three way diagonals often.

For now, I will probably just add comments to signs that show this diagonal position. 

Thank you for answering me so quickly!  And thank you to Charles also!

Rachel

From: SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages [mailto:SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU] On Behalf Of Valerie Sutton
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2018 12:34 PM
To: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU
Subject: Re: Question on hand orientation

SignWriting List

January 13, 2018

Good Saturday, Rachel!

And thank you for this question, and for the beautiful SignTyp Database at UCONN.

I believe your question is: Can we write the detailed palm facing of fingers projected forward-down-diagonal? In other words, you do not want to write the fingers projecting straight forward, and you do not want to write the fingers projecting straight down. You want an "in-between" palm facing at a "forward-down-diagonal"? Is this correct?

SignWriting for Everyday Use does not write those in-between palm facings. We choose either fingers pointing forward or fingers pointing down, and by a knowledge of the language, or possibly other information in the written sign (for example arrows that show a down-diagonal already), the reader knows enough to understand the writing...

For video transcription and for detailed research use, we do have some in-between symbols, but I caution you that no one uses them, and frankly most people will not be able to read them. I have trouble reading them, and I invented them - that is funny, isn't it? It is because we never use them... And they are not in the ISWA 2010 - that is the smbolset we are all using right now. They have to be constructed. I can construct them for you if you really feel you need them, but I wonder if you do? You already have the down-diagonal movement arrows which precludes the palm facing information and is a marker in a way...

The "in-between" palm facings are conceptually similar to the down-diagonal arrows. They involve hand positions that have an "horizon-line", but the "horizon line is lower or higher than usual, so just like the corresponding down-diagonal arrows, the horizon line moves up or down the palm facing to adjust to hitting the horizon in a different place...which then creates an in-between angle for the palm facing.

I will construct some for you and post again -

Blessings everyone -

Val ;-)

-----------------------------------------

On Jan 12, 2018, at 5:23 PM, rchannon1 at VERIZON.NET <mailto:rchannon1 at VERIZON.NET>  wrote:

Hi everyone,  I have a sign in our SignTyp project that shows the hands tilted down, backs up with fingers lower than the heel of the palm.  Here is the screengrab from the video:

How would you write this orientation to show that the fingers are lower than the wrist?  For this sign EGG, it means that the uncooked eggs are spreading out, falling down and kind of splattering all over.  If the hands were straight out, I don’t think it would have the same meaning, so I want to have the orientation show that if possible.

Thank you!

Rachel 

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