[Sw-l] Placement of Signs in Space

Fri Apr 16 02:39:07 UTC 2021

Hello Adaame and Val,

I write this:

Best regards,

André
De :  Adam Frost <icemandeaf at GMAIL.COM>
Répondre à :  "SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages"
<SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>
Date :  Thu, 15 Apr 2021 18:40:47 -0700
À :  <SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>
Objet :  Re: Placement of Signs in Space

I thought I recall something about the sizing being used for depth, but I
don¹t think that it would be necessary for everyday writing. Like I said,
this situation rarely comes up for me. ;-)

Here is a screen capture of what I wrote. It is talking about two baseball
teams: The Nationals and the Diamondbacks.

Notice the last two signs are supposed to have the depth. I feel that the
shoulder line shows the number being closer to the body, but the other
number doesn¹t have the concept of being away from the body as it is
written.

As for the concepts of ³teams², ASL makes use of placing concepts in
specific locations all the time. It isn¹t limited to names of teams. That is
the reason the lanes work so well for this. However, it is common for people
to have their preferred teams in sports, so that is where the depth comes
into play.

Adam

> On Apr 15, 2021, at 6:17 PM, Valerie Sutton
> <0000001342802f5f-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU> wrote:
> 
> SignWriting List
> April 15, 2021
> 
> Hello everyone on the SignWriting List, and thank you for this message, Adam
> ;-)
> 
> Of course this sounds like a very useful way to write ³teams² in sign
> language, but can you show us written examples in SignWriting?
> 
> And since I am not a teacher of a classroom of ASL signers, maybe you could
> explain to me (and all of us) - what do you mean by ³teams²? Is it for writing
> some kind of a game in ASL?
> 
> But to answer your question - the Lanes show us spatial comparisons and
> weight-shifting to the ³right of center² and to the ³left of center². They are
> invaluable for writing spatial comparisons in sign languages.
> 
> Technically there is a Lane that is ³far in front² and one that is ³close to
> the chest² - and one that is neutral in signing space - but over time we
> started to write those differences in ³depth² with Movement Symbols. We
> actually DID have a way to write ³depth² with hand symbols years ago, in the
> 1980s.
> 
> This was a technique that really worked in the early days of SignWriting, when
> we were writing sign language by hand with ink pens. There were 3 sizes of
> hand symbols - the normal size we use everyday is the ³middle neutral space²,
> the smaller version of the symbol means ³far away from the chest² and the
> larger symbol means closer to the chest. This is based on art perspectives.
> Further away is always smaller.
> 
> I have an article about this somewhere - I will try to find it and post it
> later.
> 
> But, as time went by, it seemed like too much information that was not
> necessary for everyday writing, and for computer symbol sets, it was a real
> problem because it would double or triple the amount of symbols so the idea of
> "far being smaller" and ³close being larger² was ignored and we have one set
> of symbols at one size for everything. The ISWA 2010 is large enough!
> 
> So how do we see ³depth² in everyday writing? Movement Symbols and some
> standardized spellings have helped.
> 
> But now - Adam - please post some SignWriting showing us what you have written
> - many thanks!
> 
> Val ;-)
> 
> ----------
> 
> 
> 
>> On Apr 15, 2021, at 1:22 PM, Adam Frost <icemandeaf at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>> 
>> I was doing some writing in SignWriting and came across an issue that I never
>> really thought of in the past. In ASL, scores can be done by placing the
>> teams in a location and then giving the numbers of the score in that
>> location. For example, I can have one team on the right and another on the
>> left. If I sign 4 on the right and then 5 on the left, it clearly says who
>> has what score. This is easily done using the lanes in SignWriting.
>> 
>> The issue came into play when it was giving scores for ³my team² vs ³your
>> team². If I signed 4 near my chest and then 5 away from me, it would means ³I
>> have 4 and you have 5.² When I tried to write this, I wrote the shoulder line
>> over 4 and wrote 5 as I do normally. This didn¹t really seem like an issue to
>> me until I had a friend asked me how I knew that 5 was signed away from my
>> body rather than just in the neutral location when signing 5 on its own. I
>> had said I just assumed it, but that got me thinking if there was a simple
>> way to write it so that it would be clear and didn¹t have to be assumed. Is
>> there?
>> 
>> <namesign.png>
>> Adam
>> 
> 
> ____________
> 
> ________________________________________________
> 
> 
> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
> 
> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
> 
> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
> 
> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
> 
> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
> http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1

________________________________________________

SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION

Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org

Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu

SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist

Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1

________________________________________________

SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION

Valerie Sutton
SignWriting List moderator
sutton at signwriting.org

Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu

SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist

Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/sw-l/attachments/20210415/94e0d801/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Screen Shot 2021-04-15 at 6.32.37 PM.png
Type: image/png
Size: 47883 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/sw-l/attachments/20210415/94e0d801/attachment.png>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: namesign.png
Type: image/png
Size: 440 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/sw-l/attachments/20210415/94e0d801/attachment-0001.png>