[Sw-l] Placement of Signs in Space

Fri Apr 16 18:34:23 UTC 2021

Hi!

I usually use the upper point of view only when I see that there will be
depth confusion or if the signal uses the arm horizontally as a support for
the pronunciation. Here is an example:

[image: image.png]
("white" in Libras)

About decreasing the size of the sign to stand out in the text, I use it as
a strategy to emphasize the names of people and places or a specific sign,
something similar to the bold and italic font.

This is because it helps to quickly identify whether the written sign is a
proper name or focus of the topic to be treated.

*Atenciosamente,*

*Prof. Kácio Evangelista.*

Em sex., 16 de abr. de 2021 às 15:15, Adam Frost <icemandeaf at gmail.com>
escreveu:

> The lanes work great in most cases since the spatial comparison is usually
> on the sides. However, I have ran into an issue when the spatial comparison
> uses depth to imply me and you. This isn’t usage of depth isn’t used often,
> but it is necessary at times to convey the correct meaning.
>
> So I guess the top view is the way to go when depth must be shown. Does
> that mean that the palm facing should change accordingly to keep with the
> view change? If so, how would what I used in my example be written?
>
>
> Adam
>
> On Apr 16, 2021, at 10:57 AM, Valerie Sutton <
> 0000001342802f5f-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU> wrote:
>
> SignWriting List
> April 16, 2021
>
> Hello Andre and Adam -
>
> Thanks to you both for posting examples in SignWriting.
>
> Andre - it has been a long time since we have communicated. I appreciate
> your suggestion writing with the Top View of the Head - that certainly
> shows “depth” well.
>
> And Adam - your writing with Lanes also works for me - both writings seem
> readable. But I would not have thought of the Shoulder Line to mean that
> the hand was necessarily closer to my chest or not, unless there was a
> contact symbol with the chest. I suppose an added Surface Symbol might give
> some information, but does the depth really matter? If this is a research
> project where you really have to be accurate and it does matter, then using
> the Top View of the Head would be the answer, but I suspect the way you
> wrote it in Lanes is giving a Spatial Comparison enough that it is readable
> in Lanes…
>
> I loved the smaller and larger hands to show “depth” and I see that there
> are some solutions by some of the messages posted to the List - I am
> reading each email one by one - maybe software can do it after all!
>
> Those are my thoughts anyway - So great that you wrote to the List about
> this, Adam -
>
> Nice to have the List active again -
>
> Val ;-)
>
>
> ----------
>
>
>
> On Apr 15, 2021, at 7:39 PM, André Thibeault <atg at VIDEOTRON.CA> wrote:
>
> Hello Adaame and Val,
>
> I write this:
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> André
> De : Adam Frost <icemandeaf at GMAIL.COM>
> Répondre à : "SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages" <
> SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>
> Date : Thu, 15 Apr 2021 18:40:47 -0700
> À : <SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>
> Objet : Re: Placement of Signs in Space
>
> I thought I recall something about the sizing being used for depth, but I
> don’t think that it would be necessary for everyday writing. Like I said,
> this situation rarely comes up for me. ;-)
>
> Here is a screen capture of what I wrote. It is talking about two baseball
> teams: The Nationals and the Diamondbacks.
>
> <Screen Shot 2021-04-15 at 6.32.37 PM.png>
>
> Notice the last two signs are supposed to have the depth. I feel that the
> shoulder line shows the number being closer to the body, but the other
> number doesn’t have the concept of being away from the body as it is
> written.
>
> As for the concepts of “teams”, ASL makes use of placing concepts in
> specific locations all the time. It isn’t limited to names of teams. That
> is the reason the lanes work so well for this. However, it is common for
> people to have their preferred teams in sports, so that is where the depth
> comes into play.
>
> <namesign.png>
> Adam
>
> On Apr 15, 2021, at 6:17 PM, Valerie Sutton <
> 0000001342802f5f-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU> wrote:
>
> SignWriting List
> April 15, 2021
>
> Hello everyone on the SignWriting List, and thank you for this message,
> Adam ;-)
>
> Of course this sounds like a very useful way to write “teams” in sign
> language, but can you show us written examples in SignWriting?
>
> And since I am not a teacher of a classroom of ASL signers, maybe you
> could explain to me (and all of us) - what do you mean by “teams”? Is it
> for writing some kind of a game in ASL?
>
> But to answer your question - the Lanes show us spatial comparisons and
> weight-shifting to the “right of center” and to the “left of center”. They
> are invaluable for writing spatial comparisons in sign languages.
>
> Technically there is a Lane that is “far in front” and one that is “close
> to the chest” - and one that is neutral in signing space - but over time we
> started to write those differences in “depth” with Movement Symbols. We
> actually DID have a way to write “depth” with hand symbols years ago, in
> the 1980s.
>
> This was a technique that really worked in the early days of SignWriting,
> when we were writing sign language by hand with ink pens. There were 3
> sizes of hand symbols - the normal size we use everyday is the “middle
> neutral space”, the smaller version of the symbol means “far away from the
> chest” and the larger symbol means closer to the chest. This is based on
> art perspectives. Further away is always smaller.
>
> I have an article about this somewhere - I will try to find it and post it
> later.
>
> But, as time went by, it seemed like too much information that was not
> necessary for everyday writing, and for computer symbol sets, it was a real
> problem because it would double or triple the amount of symbols so the idea
> of "far being smaller" and “close being larger” was ignored and we have one
> set of symbols at one size for everything. The ISWA 2010 is large enough!
>
> So how do we see “depth” in everyday writing? Movement Symbols and some
> standardized spellings have helped.
>
> But now - Adam - please post some SignWriting showing us what you have
> written - many thanks!
>
> Val ;-)
>
> ----------
>
>
>
> On Apr 15, 2021, at 1:22 PM, Adam Frost <icemandeaf at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
> I was doing some writing in SignWriting and came across an issue that I
> never really thought of in the past. In ASL, scores can be done by placing
> the teams in a location and then giving the numbers of the score in that
> location. For example, I can have one team on the right and another on the
> left. If I sign 4 on the right and then 5 on the left, it clearly says who
> has what score. This is easily done using the lanes in SignWriting.
>
> The issue came into play when it was giving scores for “my team” vs “your
> team”. If I signed 4 near my chest and then 5 away from me, it would means
> “I have 4 and you have 5.” When I tried to write this, I wrote the shoulder
> line over 4 and wrote 5 as I do normally. This didn’t really seem like an
> issue to me until I had a friend asked me how I knew that 5 was signed away
> from my body rather than just in the neutral location when signing 5 on its
> own. I had said I just assumed it, but that got me thinking if there was a
> simple way to write it so that it would be clear and didn’t have to be
> assumed. Is there?
>
> <namesign.png>
> Adam
>
>
> ____________
>
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> ________________________________________________
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> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
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> http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1 <Screen
> Shot 2021-04-15 at 6.32.37 PM.png><namesign.png>
>
>
> ________________________________________________
>
> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>
> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>
> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>
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> ________________________________________________
>
> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>
> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>
> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>
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