[Sw-l] SignSpelling with traveling wrist flex movements

Adam Frost icemandeaf at GMAIL.COM
Wed Feb 9 21:03:09 UTC 2022 

I personally like the spelling with the wavy arrows. ;-)

In fact, this spelling of children is very similar.



That is actually what motivated me to test out a new spelling for 22, but I am not sure if it works as well because there is no downward movement that some signers see with this sign.



I think this brings up another issue I recently had with my dictionary that I haven’t figured out how to solve. I think that would be good in another thread. ;-) Although I might wait to post about that at a later time so there aren’t so many things going on at one time.


Adam

> On Feb 9, 2022, at 12:43 PM, Uta Meißner <uta.hielscher at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> you all are great. :)
> 
> I never thought that tricks were used here.
> So that a long arrow correctly placed should be understood as a wrist movement. Might look nicer, but not recommended for amateurs who don't deal much with signwriting. 
> And there can be nasty surprises.
> 
> And there can be nasty surprises.
> 
> Adam, what would you change? First wrist movement then long arrow? 
> I think:
> First - > big movement, more arm
> Second -> small movement, more hand or finger 
> 
> It is difficult to determine what trace of movement the gesture "Children" left behind. You can write that in different ways, but from the middle to the outside, that's for sure.
> Perhaps the search in motion should focus on direction rather than track of motion.
> 
> I wouldn't recommend setting a new fixed symbol from multiple symbols, because then the number of symbols would increase dramatically, which is definitely not helpful.
> We are currently investigating whether we should use rotational motion including straight motion. Because the symbols are very difficult to understand because they are rather unknown and the sign search will be less successful because, for example, you only saw the straight-line movement and not the additional arm rotation. My feeling says separate better.
> 
> 
> Source: sign2mint.de <http://sign2mint.de/>
> <image.png>
> 
> https://sign2mint.de/entry/Pazifik/5750242766511595:1802 <https://sign2mint.de/entry/Pazifik/5750242766511595:1802>
> 
> Or, you think, the follow signwriting is more better?
> <image.png>
> In this gesture, it doesn't matter whether you rotate your arm or move your hand to represent a wave. It is important that imaginary waves are drawn in the air.
> 
> 
> But unfortunately there are gestures where it is important whether the orientation during the wave movement is fixed or not.
> And I still don't know how best to write it down.
> <image.png>
> How would you sign with this sign script? Should the hand be moved or rather remain rigid while only the arm moves?
> 

> 
> Greetings
> Uta
> 
> 
> On Wed, Feb 9, 2022 at 9:02 PM Adam Frost <icemandeaf at gmail.com <mailto:icemandeaf at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Here’s a simple explanation of what I am talking about:
> 
> <Screen Shot 2022-02-09 at 12.01.19 PM.png> + <Screen Shot 2022-02-09 at 12.01.41 PM.png> = <Screen Shot 2022-02-09 at 12.01.54 PM.png>
> 
> I hope that helps.
> 
> <namesign.png>
> Adam
> 
>> On Feb 9, 2022, at 11:40 AM, Uta Meißner <uta.hielscher at GMAIL.COM <mailto:uta.hielscher at GMAIL.COM>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I have a great interest in the sign search and its sorting of the found results
>> 
>> But damn, I'm unfortunately bad in English and texts about sign language is even harder. 
>> And translation tool is not so good on this topic. 
>> 
>> I don't understand, what is the problem? 
>> 
>> Adam, you wrote of wrist. But I haven't seen wrist symbols on images. That confused me. 
>> 
>> Here I was quite welcome, if you can sign here. 
>> 
>> Greetings Uta
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Valerie Sutton <sutton at signwriting.org <mailto:sutton at signwriting.org>> schrieb am Mi., 9. Feb. 2022, 19:24:
>> Wonderful Adam!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> > On Feb 9, 2022, at 10:11 AM, Adam Frost <icemandeaf at GMAIL.COM <mailto:icemandeaf at GMAIL.COM>> wrote:
>> > 
>> > I am leaning towards the same line of thinking as well. I’m glad I caught this before I started mass-adding signs to my dictionary work. That way I only have to change a couple of signs right now. :-)
>> > 
>> > <namesign.png>
>> > Adam
>> > 
>> >> On Feb 9, 2022, at 10:01 AM, Valerie Sutton <sutton at SIGNWRITING.ORG <mailto:sutton at SIGNWRITING.ORG>> wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> SignWriting List
>> >> February 9, 2022
>> >> 
>> >> Hi Adam,
>> >> I am glad that you're starting a new thread for Traveling Wrist Flex Movements.
>> >> 
>> >> These are constructed symbols. The ISWA 2010 has all of the pieces to put them together but they are constructed so it does make searching difficult.
>> >> 
>> >> Someday we will find a way to make certain constructed symbols a part of an addendum to the ISWA 2010 so they become units that can be searched for. All of our wonderful software developers are overwhelmed with jobs so I doubt that's going to happen anytime soon so we need to make due right now. 
>> >> 
>> >> I think you are correct that when we are establishing the SignSpelling Sequence for a sign that has Traveling Flex Symbols, we probably should be sorting by wrist flexing and I think the wrist flexing comes first and the traveling arrows second. What do you think? Anything that would help searching. Because I just tried to search for them and had trouble so we do need to clean this up.
>> >> 
>> >> Val ;-)
>> >> 
>> >> ------------
>> >>  
>> >> 
>> >>> On Feb 9, 2022, at 9:35 AM, Adam Frost <icemandeaf at GMAIL.COM <mailto:icemandeaf at GMAIL.COM>> wrote:
>> >>> 
>> >>> I am going to start a new thread, but this now has me thinking about the SignSpelling and sorting with traveling wrist flex movements. :-)
>> >>> 
>> >>> First question that comes to mind is should we be using with the wrist flex arrows instead for the SignSpelling? I understand that using it in the actual writing might mess things up in the actual spelling, such as when converted to SVG font, because of the overlapping of the wrist line and the traveling arrow stem. The reason I ask is because it is technically more accurate and might be more helpful for searching.
>> >>> 
>> >>> The other question is more of a “chicken or egg” question. Ha! Should the wrist flex arrows come first in the SignSpelling Sequence for these traveling wrist flex movements, or should the traveling arrow come before the wrist flex? I have actually seen it both ways in our sorting. I am not sure if there is a specific reason for that.
>> >>> 
>> >>> <namesign.png>
>> >>> Adam
>> >>> 
>> >>>> On Feb 9, 2022, at 9:22 AM, Valerie Sutton <sutton at SIGNWRITING.ORG <mailto:sutton at SIGNWRITING.ORG>> wrote:
>> >>>> 
>> >>>> SignWriting List
>> >>>> February 9, 2022
>> >>>> 
>> >>>> Yes! That is correct. Glad you mentioned this, Adam. Those are Traveling Wrist Flexes.
>> >>>> 
>> >>>> Here are some examples of Traveling Wrist Flexes:
>> >>>> 
>> >>>> 
>> >>>> <Image.png>
>> >>>> 
>> >>>> 
>> >>>> 
>> >>>> 
>> >>>> <Image.png><Image-1.png>
>> >>> ________________________________________________
>> >>> 
>> >>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>> >>> 
>> >>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org <mailto:sutton at signwriting.org>
>> >>> 
>> >>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu <mailto:sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu>
>> >>> 
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>> >>> 
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>> >>> 
>> >> 
>> >> ________________________________________________
>> >> 
>> >> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>> >> 
>> >> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org <mailto:sutton at signwriting.org>
>> >> 
>> >> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu <mailto:sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu>
>> >> 
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>> >> 
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>> >> 
>> > 
>> > ________________________________________________
>> > 
>> > SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>> > 
>> > Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org <mailto:sutton at signwriting.org>
>> > 
>> > Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu <mailto:sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu>
>> > 
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>> > 
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>> > 
>> 
>> ________________________________________________
>> 
>> 
>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>> 
>> Valerie Sutton
>> SignWriting List moderator
>> sutton at signwriting.org <mailto:sutton at signwriting.org>
>> 
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>> ________________________________________________
>> 
>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>> 
>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org <mailto:sutton at signwriting.org>
>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu <mailto:sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu>
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> ________________________________________________
> 
> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
> 
> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org <mailto:sutton at signwriting.org>
> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu <mailto:sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu>
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> 
> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
> 
> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org <mailto:sutton at signwriting.org>
> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu <mailto:sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu>
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