[Sw-l] General movement arrowhead

Fri Feb 25 18:56:28 UTC 2022

Hi Val and everyone,

YES YES YES. 

Best regards,

André

De :  Valerie Sutton <sutton at SIGNWRITING.ORG>
Répondre à :  "SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages"
<SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>
Date :  Fri, 25 Feb 2022 10:01:16 -0800
À :  <SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>
Objet :  Re: General movement arrowhead

SignWriting List
February 25, 2022

Guess what! I found it. Indeed you are correct, Andre. The old lessons in
SignWriting textbook did say it this way “two hands move as one unit". I
found the graphic. It is attached here:

And I also found another wonderful description in the old NTID technical
signs manuals which I wrote with researchers at NTID in 1979. And I will
attach a screen capture from those books soon.

So to summarize "two hands moving as one unit" meant "overlapping paths” in
my mind, because in these diagrams they are truly on the same path. White
and black are blending to become gray in the diagrams. I started to use the
term "overlapping paths" to emphasize this idea, and I consider that the
same rule. As you will see in the NTID manuals which I am scanning now to
post.

But there needs to be other rules too now, that are more flexible, because I
too have noticed that there are times when we use the general arrowhead in a
different way so I do agree that new rules do need to be established. More
soon.

Val ;-)

--------

> On Feb 25, 2022, at 9:31 AM, Valerie Sutton <sutton at SIGNWRITING.ORG> wrote:
> 
> SignWriting List
> February 25, 2022
> 
> Hi Andre, and everyone,
> 
> There are two textbooks that I have written that you can download from the
> web:
> 
> Lessons in SignWriting Textbook (1990-2014)
> (see page 117 for General Movement Arrowhead)
> https://www.signwriting.org/archive/docs2/sw0116-Lessons-SignWriting.pdf
> 
> and...
> 
> SignWriting Basics Instruction Manual (First Edition was 2009)
> (see page 34 for General Movement Arrowhead)
> https://www.signwriting.org/archive/docs9/sw0821_SignWriting_Basics_Instructio
> n_Manual_Sutton.pdf
> 
> These books were updated from time to time, so it is possible that you have an
> older version of them, or it is possible that you are referring to other
> SignWriting books written by others? I am not sure how the books by Steve and
> Dianne Parkhurst define the General Arrowhead - I will take a look...
> 
> But I remember using the General Arrowhead meaning Overlapping Paths, based on
> research back in the 1970s and 1980s by linguists relating to “movement
> paths”, when I was using our Movement Symbols for the NTID Technical Signs
> Manuals in 1979… so this is an old definition.
> 
> So what is the name of your textbook, and can you show me a screen capture of
> the wording in the book? What year was it published?
> 
> This is very interesting - we used to have a book called SignWriting For
> Everyday Use - I will have to look in that one! This is an important
> discussion...
> 
> I have included a screen capture from the two books I mention above ….
> 
> And by the way, it is ok to say that two hands contacting might use the
> General Arrowhead, but not all writers use it that way, including me, because
> not all contacting hands are blending black with white to make grey. Some
> contacting hands do blend the two colors, with overlapping paths, and some
> contacting hands are far apart and do not blend, even though they contact.
> 
> But no worries - clearly we need to add definitions that are being used
> today...
> 
> But right now, let’s find out the textbook you are referring to…it probably is
> before 2009? I am very curious!!
> 
> 
> <Image.png>
> ______________
> 
> 
>> On Feb 25, 2022, at 8:51 AM, André Thibeault <atg at VIDEOTRON.CA> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Val and everyone,
>> 
>> It seems to me that my textbook is different from your textbook.
>> 
>> Two hands move as one unit.
>> 
>> When both hands contact, and move toghter in the same direction, they move as
>> one unit.  The movement is both right and left. This is written with a
>> neutral arrowhead, which is neither dark nor light. (first definition only).
>> That is all.
>> 
>> My textbook does not include overlapping paths (first (with contact)  and
>> second (without contact)  definition).
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> André
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> De : Valerie Sutton <sutton at SIGNWRITING.ORG>
>> Répondre à : "SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages"
>> <SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>
>> Date : Fri, 25 Feb 2022 07:49:03 -0800
>> À : <SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>
>> Objet : Re: General movement arrowhead
>> 
>> SignWriting List
>> February 25, 2022
>> 
>> Hello everyone, and Andre,
>> 
>> I found the message I was looking for. See below. It was under another
>> subject title related to captions so that is why I couldn't find it before…
>> 
>> I appreciate this message Andre. Thank you. I remembered you had said that
>> you wanted to argue for new definitions. I appreciate your input.
>> 
>> The first definition, and the only one in textbooks at the moment, is
>> Overlapping Paths (see attached).
>> 
>> What are the second and third definitions that you propose?
>> 
>> Many thanks 😊
>> 
>> Val 😊
>> 
>> ________
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 23, 2022, at 1:00 PM, André Thibeault <atg at VIDEOTRON.CA> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Val and everyone,
>>> 
>>> Val: I cannot read English captions.  Don't worry about it. I am sure that I
>>> understand the general movement arrowhead.  However, I would like to argue a
>>> new third definition of   <C0D57E8A-CFED-454B-A76D-B6DA340F4581.png>.
>>> 
>>> Best regards,
>>> 
>>> André
>>> 
>> 
> 
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> 
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