[Sw-l] Japanese Translation for Signwriting? (Also, an Introduction)

Mon Jan 31 03:40:37 UTC 2022

SignWriting List
January 30, 2022

Hello SignWriting List…and Rio -
The name Rio is easier to type on English keyboards!

And thank you, Rio, for all your messages. I will try to combine all my answers here. I will be offline for the next 2 days because of meetings. I will be back Wednesday.

You certainly have been kind in your enthusiasm. It is good to know that the books that Adam and I worked on have been useful to you.  Did you know that it took Adam years to photograph his own hands? All of those hand photos are his own hands, and that is hard to do! The photos, where he is wearing green, were taken by me in my home. Some of them, that are used to show depth in space, were taken on my staircase. Surprising what can be done when a project is low budget ;-)

There are lots of photos of Adam on the web in recent times - for example - the front page of SignWriting.org - we have a video to welcome visitors and Adam and Garrett are in that video - thank you for the video, Adam ;-)

So now, on to your comparison below to other writing systems -  Thank you for your kind words. I feel gratitude to everyone who makes this possible. Without all the SignWriters and the linguists and teachers and software developers, SignWriting would be nowhere. So I am so grateful to everyone who chooses to learn SignWriting and work with it and help it improve day by day. Thank you everyone!

The SignWriting script has been compared to Hangul before - some linguists call both writing systems “featural” - I have not studied Hangul to know if the comparison is a good one or not…but it is an honor to be compared in that way…

And maybe your work will someday be a legend too! Everyone has the potential of achieving great things, and because of the internet we can share today in a way that the old creators could not. Most died not knowing if anybody use their work. This is true for artists too.

Maybe we are all watched by angels while we work. I like to believe that ;-)

Because of the internet, you were able to search for SignWriting and find it faster. When I was younger, we did not get information that fast, and the internet has made a big difference. I hope to live another 30 years - there is a lot we can accomplish!

Steve introduced me to Gitter chat. Thank you Steve for Gitter chat! ;-)

I didn't realize that JSL influenced KSL, but I'm not surprised because the two countries are fairly close to each other, and oftentimes teachers work between countries and sign languages therefore influence each other. By the way there are several members on this list from Japan.

I will also reach out to the Korean Sign Language translator to see if we can communicate about some of the terminology.

I hope you can communicate with the Japanese contacts that Adam gave you. As you know their video is on

SignWriting in Japan
https://www.signwriting.org/japan

and is also on Facebook. We have two pages for SignWriting on Facebook. Did you know that? Everyone is welcome to join.  Here are the links:

SignWriting on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/groups/SuttonSignWriting

Val’s Page ;-)
https://www.facebook.com/SignWriting/

Blessings -

Val ;-)

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> On Jan 30, 2022, at 5:16 PM, 川音リオ <rio.kawane at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> 
> Dear Valerie Sutton,
> 
> ...I still cannot believe I am talking with the creator of this writing system, encoded in Unicode...
> And not just any writing system, but one of the greatest, most groundbreaking system ever to be invented since the creation of Hangul, the great script.
> 
> As a grammatologist, most of the popular alphabets and writing systems are usually invented by great minds from centuries, if not millennia ago, and more than often it is portrayed as a gift from divine beings like Angels and Gods. 
> From innovators like Sir Issac Pitman to John Robert Gregg, from great kings like Sejong of Korea to Ashoka of India, from Deities and Gods like Thoth of Egypt to Nisaba of Sumer; the study of writing systems are usually studies of the past. 
> Never have I expected, in my life, to actually talk with a living legend through an email before! 
> 
> 
> I find it quite amazing that you found out about SignWriting from a book entitled "The World's Writing Systems by Peter T. Daniels and William Bright” published in 1996. I did not know about this book. I'm so happy to know that SignWriting was mentioned there and you found it in the book. I am going to order a copy from Amazon today. Thank you ;-)
> 
> There was a time in my life where I said to myself: "It would be nice if I can write down body motions and whatknots" and so I was reading this book and found your name along with the list of others. Although your name is just briefly mentioned among other lovely inventors of various other writing systems, I had looked up all of the movement notation systems mentioned in the book and found out what the system actually looks like and immediately fell in love with it (the diagram was not listed in the book for Signwriting so I had to look it up. The book itself is a definite bible for all grammatologists out there. Highly recommend it if you enjoy writing systems of various different languages).
> At the time though, I did not know I was living at the same time as you! You cannot imagine the look I had last year when I found out that you were still well and active on Matrix (gitter.chat) of all places!
> 
> Recently a new book went to press in South Korea. A South Korean SignWriting user translated a whole SignWriting textbook into South Korean spoken language and also South Korean Sign Language. I don't know if this would be helpful but we can talk to the translator who has chosen to have it published by a publisher and the book is not ready yet but I do have a PDF of the document and I can find some of the terminology in South Korean spoken language if that would help you? I am aware that South Korean is a different spoken language than Chinese and Japanese but it's one book I can point to from Asia.
> 
> The spoken languages are indeed different from Korean to Japanese unlike the Signed one. However, both the Korean language and the Japanese language had a huge influence from Chinese loanwords and, more recently, foreign influences from western languages like English. Not to mention that Korean Sign Language, or KSL for short, was historically derived from JSL, the Japanese Sign Language. Pointing me to the documentation in Spoken Korean Language would give me clues on how to deal with loanwords from English (whether by using Chinese loanwords or making a new word from native language) and having documentations on Korean Signed Language will help me understand how things could be signed in JSL as well! 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 1:29 AM Valerie Sutton <sutton at signwriting.org> wrote:
> SignWriting List
> January 30, 2022
> 
> Hello SignWriting List and では〱。
> 
> Welcome to our new member from Virtual Japan! I am happy to meet you, では〱。
> 
> You have successfully subscribed to the SignWriting List, では〱。That is so great ;-)
> 
> I just checked the SignWriting List Archives on the web, and your message is in the Archives. So thank you for joining and for posting this introduction to you and your work.
> 
> There are others in Japan who use SignWriting, or are learning or teaching SignWriting. And we do have written documents and Japanese fingerspelling fonts. I don't know if there are other Japanese SignWriting users here on the SignWriting List. We will find out ;-)
> 
> Here are some links that might be of interest to you regarding SignWriting in Japan:
> 
> Japanese Sign Language Dictionary & Literature in SignPuddle Online
> https://www.signbank.org/signpuddle/index2.html#sgn-JP
> 
> Recently there has been more activity in JSL Literature in SignPuddle. Some beautiful SignWriting documents have been posted by a Japanese signwriter who lives in Brazil ;-)
> 
> And recently I posted a video from Japan here:
> 
> SignWriting in Japan
> https://www.signwriting.org/japan/
> 
> Adam Frost, SignWriting and ASL professor, flew to Japan and taught SignWriting there years ago.
> 
> I find it quite amazing that you found out about SignWriting from a book entitled "The World's Writing Systems by Peter T. Daniels and William Bright” published in 1996. I did not know about this book. I'm so happy to know that SignWriting was mentioned there and you found it in the book. I am going to order a copy from Amazon today. Thank you ;-)
> 
> So now we need to learn about grammology and virtual reality. I look forward to the discussions!
> 
> So shall we start new topics for new discussion threads? Such as:
> 
> VRJSL, Virtual Reality Japanese Sign Language
> 
> Chinese/Japanese Translations for SignWriting
> 
> Recently a new book went to press in South Korea. A South Korean SignWriting user translated a whole SignWriting textbook into South Korean spoken language and also South Korean Sign Language. I don't know if this would be helpful but we can talk to the translator who has chosen to have it published by a publisher and the book is not ready yet but I do have a PDF of the document and I can find some of the terminology in South Korean spoken language if that would help you? I am aware that South Korean is a different spoken language than Chinese and Japanese but it's one book I can point to from Asia.
> 
> So look for new messages with new titles. Or start new messages yourself with your own titles to get the topics started...
> 
> Thank you so much once again!
> 
> Have a blessed day -
> 
> Val ;-)
> 
> <Valerie_Signature_01.jpg>
> 
> Valerie Sutton
> 
> 
> 
> __________
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jan 30, 2022, at 6:43 AM, 川音リオ <rio.kawane at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>> 
>> Uhh... I have never used maillists in my life before, so I hope I'm doing this right...
>> 
>> 
>> So, um, hello to everyone reading this message. I'm 川音リオ＠KawaneRio, an ordinary grammatologist from Virtual Japan. 
>> 
>> 
>> Before I ask my question for the day, I just wanted to say, to dear Valerie Sutton,
>> 
>> I Thank you. So much. For your extraordinary work on making a complete writing system for sign languages.
>> I first found out about your work in a book called The World's Writing Systems by Peter T. Daniels and William Bright. Your name was mentioned just briefly among other inventors of various notations for symbols of signing, movement, dancing, et cetera. However, the exquisite writing system that you had illustrated definitely left a reverence toward you along with this fuzzy sentiment for what could be possible with this. I tried learning about your system when I was in gradeschool, but I did not have the resources nor the knowledge to understand everything other than the fact that such system existed.
>> But recently, especially around 2021, my life has changed. I was spending more time on Virtual Reality than Real Life on some days, communicating with people around the globe as if they were right next to me (it's like the invention of telephone all over again🤣).
>> 
>> In case you have not heard of Virtual Reality, it's a technology where you can communicate with others, but in 3D; almost like a video game with lots of players, except those players are real people and not a random character made by the game.
>> 
>> The amazing thing about this "Virtual Reality", or VR for short, is that it allows you to see the hand and head movement of other people in real time! People Hard of Hearing, or even those who are deaf can play in VR given that they don't get headaches and eyestrains. However, there is a catch: most people are limited to just 7 handsigns with the game controllers available today. One of the most wellknown deaf communities in the Virtual World, known as Helping Hands, has proposed a way for Deaf/HoH users to communicate by using a special dialect of ASL, limited by just mere 7 handsigns! Thus, VRASL was created; not just by anyone, but by the community of deaf users and certified teachers of sign languages.
>> 
>> Meanwhile, in Virtual Japan, there is a growing community of deaf/mute users, also known as 無言勢(mugon-zei). The thing with Japan though is that, even though there is a massive demand for Japanese Sign Language, also known as 日本手話(Nihon Shuwa, NS for short) in the growing community, unlike ASL, there are not many resources! When it comes to VRJSL; well, the resources are nonexistent. 
>> 
>> My mission here, as a fellow grammatologist, is to make a free and open dictionary for Virtual Reality Japanese Sign Language, or VRJSL for short, available for anyone to view and use for the Virtual World!
>> 
>> 
>> Sorry that was a bit longer than I had initially expected. Now, for the question:
>> 
>> Are there any Japanese or Chinese translations of technical terms used in SuttonSignWriting? Specifically, I am looking for Japanese translations of "Perspective View" and "Top View", but if there is a comprehensive glossary of technical terms (especially for each of the handsigns) translated in other languages already, I would love to know as it would help me immensely in making my dictionary!
>> 
>> 
>> Thank you so much for your time reading this rather stilted loft about myself, but I would honestly appreciate any help on the Japanese Translation topic. 
>> 
>> 
>> では〱。
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 　　────川音リオ＠KawaneRio
>> ________________________________________________
> 
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> 
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> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
> 
> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
> 
> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
> 
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________________________________________________

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