Case marking in some Dravidian languages

[Coelho]

VYAKARAN: South Asian Languages and Linguistics Net
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          John Peterson, University of Osnabrueck, Germany
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Thanks for the reference, Dr. Bhaskarrao -- I'll look it up.

Gail

At 06:17 PM 7/24/02 +0900, Peri Bhaskararao wrote:
>VYAKARAN: South Asian Languages and Linguistics Net
>Editors:  Tej K. Bhatia, Syracuse University, New York
>          John Peterson, University of Osnabrueck, Germany
>Details:  Send email to listserv at listserv.syr.edu and say: INFO VYAKARAN
>Subscribe:Send email to listserv at listserv.syr.edu and say:
>          SUBSCRIBE VYAKARAN FIRST_NAME LAST_NAME
>          (Substitute your real name for first_name last_name)
>Archives: http://listserv.syr.edu
>
>I am sure the discussants on this issue have seen the earlier work on
>'Contact and Causation in Hindi' by Anuradha Saxena (both in her paper
>in Language and in her book from UCLA).
>
>Bhaskararao
>
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>[Please note the new address of our Institute (given below)]
>---------------
>Prof. Peri Bhaskararao, Ph.D.
>ILCAA, Tokyo University of Foreign Studies
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>
>Coelho wrote:
>
>>VYAKARAN: South Asian Languages and Linguistics Net
>>Editors:  Tej K. Bhatia, Syracuse University, New York
>>          John Peterson, University of Osnabrueck, Germany
>>Details:  Send email to listserv at listserv.syr.edu and say: INFO VYAKARAN
>>Subscribe:Send email to listserv at listserv.syr.edu and say:
>>          SUBSCRIBE VYAKARAN FIRST_NAME LAST_NAME
>>          (Substitute your real name for first_name last_name)
>>Archives: http://listserv.syr.edu
>>
>>Dear Dr. Clements,
>>
>>This is a second and delayed response to this message (enclosed below)
>>about causatives you sent to Vyakaran. I'm working on Betta Kurumba, a
>>minority Dravidian language spoken in an area overlapping the Kannada,
>>Tamil, and Malayalam areas. This language has similar causative sentences
>>to the ones you mention, except that it has a third form as well. The three
>>forms are given below; the third contains an instrumental postposition. The
>>first implies that Bomman was coerced into grinding the flour; the second
>>implies that he had greater scope for volition (sort of assigned to do the
>>task, agreed to do the task). In both these, the implication is that Bomman
>>himself did the job. In the third, which has the instrumental, Bomman plays
>>a role in getting the job done, but he does not necessarily do the job
>>himself -- he could either have got someone else to do it or done it
>>himself. I therefore see the use of the instrumental as a way of reducing
>>the role of the causee.
>>
>>1)      nawI bommIn-a ma:wI yari-si-s-IdI
>>         1SG.NOM Bomman-ACC. flour grind-CAUS-PAST-SG.
>>         I made Bomman grind the flour.
>>
>>2)      nawI bommIn-a ma:wI yar-pisi-s-IdI
>>         1SG.NOM Bomman-ACC. flour grind-CAUS-PAST-SG.
>>         I got Bomman to grind the flour.
>>
>>3)      nawI bommIn ipIli ma:wI yar-pisi-s-IdI
>>         1SG.NOM Bomman INSTR flour grind-CAUS-PAST-SG.
>>         I got the flour ground through Bomman.
>>
>>There are other verbs with which all 3 forms are not possible, only 2 are
>>possible -- either of (1) or (2), plus (3) (the choice of (1) or (2)
>>relates to a non-past tense marker actually). With those verbs, the issue
>>of coercion vs. volition depends on context or the semantics of the verb.
>>The 3rd form (containing the instrumental) is normally used to imply that
>>the causer did not necessarily do the task himself. I wonder if that
>>applies also to the sentence you have with the instrumental -- that your
>>Kannada sentence implies that "I" was the instrument of getting the
>>biscuits eaten, but did not necessarily eat them myself ... not sure if it
>>works.
>>
>>Gail Coelho
>>
>>>At 04:09 PM 12/27/01 -0500, J. Clancy Clements wrote:
>>>
>>>>In Kannada, one finds the dative relation marked by the dative or the
>>>>instrumental suffix, as in the examples below.
>>>>
>>>>Avanu-0 nana-ge bisket-annu tin-is-id-anu
>>>>3SG-NOM 1SG-DAT biscuit-ACC eat-CAUS-PAST-3SG-MASC
>>>>'He fed me the biscuit.'
>>>>
>>>>Avanu-0 nana-inda bisket-annu tin-is-id-anu
>>>>3SG-NOM 1SG-INST biscuit-ACC eat-CAUS-PAST-3SG-MASC
>>>>'He had me eat a biscuit.'
>>>>
>>>>This is the type of marking I'm interested in.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>My questions are:
>>>>1) Regarding Malayalam, is there a difference in meaning (e.g.
>>>>logical or
>>>>conversational implicatures) between marking an indirect object with a
>>>>dative or comitative marker?  If so, how would one describe the
>>>>difference?
>>>>
>>>>2) Does Tamil have this type of marking, where the indirect object is
>>>>marked by a dative suffix or by an instrumental or comitative
>>>>suffix?  If
>>>>so, are there differences in meaning expressing by using one or the
>>>>other
>>>>marker?  If so, how would one describe them?
>>>>
>>>>3) Does Telegu also have this type of marking??
>>>>
>>>>Any information on these questions would be greatly appreciated.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks very much,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Clancy Clements
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 *********************************************
>>>>                 J. Clancy Clements
>>>>                 Associate Professor of Spanish and Portuguese
>>>>                 Adjunct Associate Professor of Linguistics
>>>>                 Director of Undergraduate Studies
>>>>                 Dept. of Spanish and Portuguese, BH844, IU-B
>>>>                 1020 East Kirkwood Avenue
>>>>                 Bloomington, IN 47405
>>>>                 Tel 812-855-8612; Fax 812-855-4526
>>>>                 http://www.indiana.edu/~spanport/clements.html
>>>>                 *********************************************
>>
>
>
>--
>***********************************
>[Please note the new address of our Institute (given below)]
>---------------
>Prof. Peri Bhaskararao, Ph.D.
>ILCAA, Tokyo University of Foreign Studies
>Asahi-cho 3-11-1
>Fuchu-shi
>Tokyo, 183-8534
>Japan
>Phone & Fax: +81-42-330-5686
>************************************