marathi-romanscript (non-members may comment to MNG)

Thu Feb 3 08:19:32 UTC 2005

VYAKARAN: South Asian Languages and Linguistics Net
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Marathi in Roman Script  Yahoogroup Discussion
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Moderator  Madhukar N. Gogate  initiates discussion on
Feb 1, 2005  (Pune India time about 6 am)
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Preface
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Welcome. This group has 33 members at start. Discussion period is about
one month. Members may give, or not give, and revise opinions. Marathi
language is written in Devanagari (DN) script, which has many merits. Many
machines and software are available for that script. Sometimes only the
Roman script facility is available. Some persons use the Roman script for
Marathi at random. This discussion is about deciding a practical standard
Roman script (lipi) for Marathi emails etc
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prastaavanaa (Translation of Preface)
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susvaagatam… yaa samuhaat aarambhi 33 sadasya aahet… charchaa sumaare
ek mahinaa ch’aalel… abhipraay den’e, vaa  na den’e, va  te  badaln’e  ase
sadasya karu shaktil… bahugun’i  devanaagari (DN) lipit  maraat’hi  bhaashaa
lihili j’aate… tyaa  lipikartaa  khup yantre  va  Software upalabdha aahet…
kaahi vel'aa  phakta  roman  lipichi  suvidhaa  upalabdha aste… kaahi  lok
maraat’hikartaa  roman lipich’aa  svair  vaapar kartaat… maraat’hi  Emails
ityaadikartaa  ek vyavahaari  pramaan’ roman  lipi (Script)  t’harvaaylaa
hi  charchaa  aahe…
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Note  -- Triple dot + blank space (not single dot + blank space)
at the end of every sentence.
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nirdesh (= Directions)
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1. Use marathi-romanscript at yahoogroups.com for group emails. Only
members can do so, others cannot access. For (rare) personal messages
to Moderator, use  mngogate at vsnl.com . Contact Moderator for
enrolling new members, who should know Marathi, DN script. Please
state name, age, gender, email, location, profession. Latecomers too
can take part in the discussion. All messages to the group are not
moderated, and are stored as archives (available for later reading)
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2. Discussion will be in English and Marathi. Tentatively use the provisions
in M12 pdf in www.mngogate.com  That website has other relevant articles
E03, E04, M11. Para (9) E03 has eight Marathi proverbs in Roman lipi with
MP3 sounds. Same proverbs are displayed on M12, in DN and Roman scripts.
For reference, take a print of M12  (it carries few English hints also) or
save its icon on the desktop toolbar (for click & pop-up anytime).
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3. Use ordinary alphabets smalls (abcd etc), capitals (ABCD etc),
punctuation marks, numerals etc. Do not use italics, bold, underlining,
colours as they may not appear on screens of some members. No attachments.
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4. Needless to say, only decent words should be used.  However, note that an
example of Marathi sentence such as < svaamine (by Swami) chamatkaar
(miracle) kelaa (made)... > does not mean that we agree with the contents.
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5. DN symbols cannot be presented here. So use approx English meanings in
brackets for some Marathi words for guidance. < to gelaa…> is in Roman lipi,
the final form to be used.  For training, one may use < to(he) gelaa(went)…>
It reminds that < to > in Marathi is not read like < to > in English,
< gelaa > is  proper word, not < gela >. One may also use the equality sign
as  in  >  to (= he)
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6. This group is a small think tank, having no control on millions of
people. It may do just loud  thinking. No voting. Members may inform
some forums, media etc later. Democracy is a slow system. (Kemal,
a dictator, could impose the Roman script on Turkish language).
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7.  For probable public acceptance, prefer symbols generally used for
writing Indian names in English. Some symbols are explained with
English words in brackets  -- a (both a - american) & a (a - arm)
Optionally  aa ( a-arm).  i ( i - kin) ee (ee - keen) e (egg) o (open)
u (u- pull) oo (pool) v ( w - woman). Symbols (u) as in sulfur,
( i ) as in ice, almost never used in Indian names. DN shows both
(English let, late) equivalent to common (let). For success, use
the symbols available in the present English-typing machines.
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Topics for discussion. Refer them as T01, T02 etc. if necessary.
Some hints are given. See articles M11, M12 for details.
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01. Should Roman lipi words match with DN writing (transliteration) or
pronunciation ? Examples DN words = sarakaara, madhye   Sound =
sarkaar, madhe
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02. Should English words in Marathi be respelled ?  Table, Company >
 t'ebal, kampani  (Bottle, English with changed sounds) > baat’li, ingraji
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03.Should names be respelled ? Gandhi , Newton > gaandhi,
nyut’an ( Sanskrit Pand'it > English Pundit ) Pneumonia, omitting  p >
nyumoniaa. Will people object to respelling their names? (documents,
sentiments affected ?) Places can be renamed ? ( Bombay > mumbai )
How women change names after marriage ? (Male dictatorship?)
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04.Will ( first letter = capital ) help to show a non-standard spelling?
Use triple dots to end sentences ? Or  take usual format ? (=  Start a
sentence with capital, end it with single dot) ?  malaa (= to me) Paper
de(= give) ... Note > (Paper or pepar.)  < paper > may be mis-read
as (pa + pe + r) ?
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05. Capitals as sound variants ? a - A   d - D  l – L  n  - N   t – T  etc
raajaa (= king) long word but neat looking, no shift key pressing for
typing.  Should it be  < rAjA >  with intermittent capitals ?
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06. Use of apo (apostrophe mark) as a sound variant. Will it clash with
inverted comma ? Omit it in routine work ? dagad' ( = stone) > dagad ?
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07.Choice of svar (= vowels) ? English vowels ae (map > maep)
ao (law > lao) ? Often Marathi people do not mind oo = u  &  ee = i
Thus Hindi (as spelled in English) is taken ok, though DN word = Hindee.
Optionally (aa, ee, oo) = ( a'  i'  u' ) ?
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08. Choice of vyanjan (consonants) Marathi (v, vh) for English
(w, v) confusing ? Why is (w) unpopular ? 4 slant lines made it cramped
in the manual typewriters which provided equal space for each letter ?
Name d'ablyu  inconvenient ? dev (= God),  dew (other English meaning).
Duality of (ch j ) &  (ch'  j' -- required but not in DN). Use of (h)
without its sound (see h-he) in (ch, sh ). Change (ch, sh) to say (c, x) ?
Or accept (ch, sh) as bad, traditional compromises ?
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09. How to show  rare sounds ? Ignore ? (last one in DN  group
ch-chh-j-jh-? ).
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10. Should a scheme match with software programs ?   (a t d n  >> one
set of sounds, A T D N >> another set of sounds shown with
DN symbols)
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11 Teleprinters, some handsets show only capitals. Usable for Marathi ?
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12. Any other benefits of Roman lipi ? (linear, so better for word sorting)
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13  Split  very long Roman words ? ityaadikartaa > ityaadi  kartaa
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14  Wait for a future convenient practical script for all languages ? Read
article E04. People differ on (Vasant, Vasanth), (Color, Colour) etc
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There are 2 samples for trying any symbol-sound scheme (other than M12)
One is Marathi prastaavanaa. Other sample is 8 Marathi proverbs in
M12 (stated below). Please do homework, using symbols of your choice
(not as per M12), for the sample sentences. Do not try symbols for isolated
words and isolated sentences. Consider totality.
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ati tethe maati … durun d'ongar saaj'are…  garaj' saro va vaidya maro…
devaachi karn'i va naaral'aat paan'i… kutryaach'e sheput' sadaa vaakd'e…
ekaa myaanaat don talvaari rahaat naahit… nindakaach'e ghar asaave
shej'aari…  naak daable ki tond' ughad'te…
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Members are requested to give a brief reaction (say 30 words) per topic
till 6 Feb 2005 and wait. ( You may quote the topic number or copy the
text of a topic, and  write your reaction below it ). You may choose one
or many topics of your choice. Please do not comment on the reactions
of other members. Wait ! Later, Moderator will initiate topicwise full
criss-cross discussion. Suggest other topics if any. Thanks.
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Read other articles too in www.mngogate.com
Some of them are language-related.
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 Message Ends
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