Hawaiianisms; righteous

[Wilson Gray]

On 1/14/06, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu> wrote:
>
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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: Hawaiianisms; righteous
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> At 7:50 AM -0800 1/14/06, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> >I don't believe I ever encountered these specific forms in NYC.  If
> >a restaurant, for example, offered the patty on a plate w/o the bun,
> >with side orders of vegetables, the item was called "chopped steak"
> >or "chopped beefsteak."
> >
> >   Butchers used these terms as well.
>
> I have a very negative association with "hamburg(er) steak", as well
> as with "Salisbury steak", which I think comes from their being used
> in institutional settings, in particular high school cafeterias and
> college dining halls.  I don't think it's used anymore, and my 23
> year old son just claimed he was totally unfamiliar with the
> "hamburg(er) steak" locution.
>
> larry



I'm only too familiar with Salisbury steak, that staple of school cafeterias
and Army mess halls. So, that's what "hamburg(er) steak" is. FWIW, I've
heard that the legendary mess-hall dish, "S.O.S." or "shit on a shingle" was
creamed sliced beef over toast. In my day, it was hamburger - not in patty
form, but "loose," whatever the term for that is -  over toast and covered
with a sauce laughingly referred to as "cream." IMO, it wasn't nearly as bad
as I'd heard that it was. Also FWIW, the *only* foodstuff served at *every*
meal, three times a day, was potatoes.

-Wilson




>Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> >   ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >-----------------------
> >Sender: American Dialect Society
> >Poster: Wilson Gray
> >Subject: Re: Hawaiianisms; righteous
>
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >In what part(s) of the country is either "hamburger steak" or "hamburg
> >steak" used? Just asking for information.
> >
> >-Wilson Gray
> >
> >
> >On 1/13/06, Douglas G. Wilson wrote:
> >>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
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> >>  Sender: American Dialect Society
> >>  Poster: "Douglas G. Wilson"
> >>  Subject: Re: Hawaiianisms; righteous
> >>
>
> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>  >In Kihei, I spotted a "hamburg" dish. I suppose that's the same as
> the
> >>  >Japanese hambaagu, made by cooking a mixture of ground beef,
> vegetables and
> >>  >sauce.
> >>
> >>  I think the Japanese "hambaagu [suteiki]" is etymologically identical
> to
> >>  the English (US) "hamburg [steak]", although the typical referent may
> have
> >>  regional variations. The usual current US form would be "hamburger
> >>  [steak]", I think. The referent would be a lump or patty of ground
> beef
> >>  with more or less of various fillers (often more fillers in East Asia
> than
> >>  in US in my very limited experience). As I mentioned in an earlier
> message
> >>  the term "hamburger steak" has existed (US) alongside the apparently
> >>  synonymous "hamburg steak" since the 1890's, with "hamburger steak"
> >>  predominating only since the 1940's or so. I would suppose that the
> >>  English/Hawaiian "hamburg" is merely a conservative equivalent of
> >>  "hamburger", then, rather than an adoption from Japanese, although
> given
> >>  that it's in Hawaii one might suppose that this conservative form
> might be
> >>  stabilized by Japanese tourism. I deny any expertise.
> >>
> >>  -- Doug Wilson
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
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