does anyone need another example of positive ANYMORE?

Wilson Gray hwgray at GMAIL.COM
Fri Feb 15 07:57:15 UTC 2008

This was in Missouri, a former slave state wherein the last Indian of
the Missouri tribe, a branch of the Lakota, died of alcoholism in
1935. Were you living in the  United States in 1944, James? At that
time, in this country, segregation was either de jure or de facto the
law in all 48 states. Naturally, that had a certain tendency to color
the attitude of the non-white WRT jokes whose very point depended upon
the current attitude of the majority population toward a member of a
minority population.

As for Tonto's name having been derived from the name of some obscure,
hitherto unknown Indian tribe and not from Spanish "tonto," was that
claim meant to be taken seriously? When I was around seven, I knew the
meaning of the Spanish word. Now that I'm around 71, when it no longer
matters, suddenly, a new, less-insulting derivation of Tonto's name
appears out of nowhere. Even should this new derivation turn out to to
exactly right, in 1944, no one knew and, even had anyone known, he
wouldn't have cared.

Am I the only one here who knows that "land of the free" and "with
liberty and justice for all" are nothing but sick jokes and will still
be nothing but that, should either Hillary or Barack be elected with
100% of the total vote?


On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 9:19 PM, James Harbeck <jharbeck at> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>  Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>  Poster:       James Harbeck <jharbeck at SYMPATICO.CA>
>  Subject:      Re: does anyone need another example of positive ANYMORE?
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  >I heard the punchline ca.1944 as "What you mean, 'we,' white man?" And
>  >no mention was made of weapons. Of course, such jokes have many
>  >different versions. I heard it in Saint Louis from a white neighbor
>  >boy and I took its point to be that, when the deal goes down, white
>  >people can not trust the non-white and I didn't find it humorous at
>  >all.
>  Hm. I took no such general point from it. To me it was specifically
>  about the characters in question. I've never idolized the Lone
>  Ranger; to me he's, if anything, more a figure of fun. In the
>  situation in question, the Indians are probably angry with him for
>  shooting a lot of them, which seems justifiable to me. I tend to
>  think of the punch line whenever someone wants to include me by
>  assumption in what I see as perhaps not the right side of the debate.
>  In other words, I'm identifying with Tonto. Enough with this Lone
>  Ranger dude! He can get his own ass out of this mess, I'm not
>  covering for him this time.
>  Thanks for the reminder, though, that not everyone sees these things
>  from the same perspective.
>  James Harbeck.
>  ------------------------------------------------------------
>  The American Dialect Society -

All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
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