All 40 USA English phonemes (Was Re: Eggcorn? "warn" > "worn")

Thu Feb 12 05:27:33 UTC 2009

Thanks Neal,

You say: So let's suppose that the vowel in "sing" really is [i]. In that case, what is it thatdistinguishes "sing" from "seen"?

I foespel (phonetically spell) in truespel "sing" as ~seeng and "seen" as ~seen.  The "n" in "sing" is velar and the tip is the g (which is velar-ish too), whether its a strong or weak one.
Take the words "ingot" and "ingrain".  They are foespeld ~eengit and ~ingraen.  It's as though the vowels determine whether the "n" is velar or not.

Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
see truespel.com

----------------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 22:24:47 -0500
> From: nwhitman at AMERITECH.NET
> Subject: Re: All 40 USA English phonemes (Was Re: Eggcorn? "warn"> "worn")
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: Neal Whitman
> Subject: Re: All 40 USA English phonemes (Was Re: Eggcorn? "warn">
> "worn")
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> In the first sentence of your message you grant that /N/ (aka "ng") is a
> phoneme in its own right, but two sentences later you seem to imply that [N]
> ("ng") is (only) an allophone of the phoneme /n/ ("the n is velar rather
> than alveolar, but that kind of thing goes on with other phonemes"). Since
> you didn't include the sound in the sentence you constructed, and in light
> of previous discussions, I conclude the latter position is the one you take.
>
> As you point out, another issue is the vowel vefore [N]. In previous
> discussions, IIRC, you argued that the meaning contrast between, for
> example, "sin" and "sing" did not prove that /n/ and /N/ were separate
> phonemes, on the grounds that it's the different vowels (in part) that
> distinguish the words: [I] ("short I") in "sin" and [i] ("long E") in
> "sing". As I wrote in a blog post at the time, there is some room for
> disagreement whether the vowel in "sing" is [I] or [i]. So let's suppose
> that the vowel in "sing" really is [i]. In that case, what is it that
> distinguishes "sing" from "seen"? If the vowel in both is [i], then the only
> thing that distinguishes these words is the [n] vs. [N], which would again
> make the two separate phonemes by definition. (Of course, [N] could *also*
> be an allophone of /n/, appearing in words like "encroach" or "concave",
> where a speaker could pronounce the /n/ as [n] or [N] and not change the
> meaning of the word, but the "seen/sin/sing" facts would still accord /N/
> status as a phoneme.)
>
> In any case, putting a word with an [N]/"ng" into your sentence wouldn't
> hurt, even if you didn't believe it was a phoneme. That way, you'd be
> covered in both cases.
>
> (The blog post, for those who weren't here for the earlier go-round:
> http://literalminded.wordpress.com/2008/09/02/engma-enigma/)
>
> Neal
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Zurinskas"
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 8:20 PM
> Subject: Re: All 40 USA English phonemes (Was Re: Eggcorn? "warn"> "worn")
>
>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail
>> header -----------------------
>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>> Poster: Tom Zurinskas
>> Subject: Re: All 40 USA English phonemes (Was Re: Eggcorn? "warn">
>> "worn")
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Your looking for the "ng" phoneme. That's treated in truespel as merely n
>> and g. Granted the n is velar rather than alveolar, but that kind of
>> thing goes on with other phonemes so it's not biggie. As mentioned
>> before, the real biggie is the vowel sound before the velar n.
>>
>>
>> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
>> see truespel.com
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>>> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 11:46:17 -0500
>>> From: nwhitman at AMERITECH.NET
>>> Subject: All 40 USA English phonemes (Was Re: Eggcorn? "warn"> "worn")
>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail
>>> header -----------------------
>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>> Poster: Neal Whitman
>>> Subject: All 40 USA English phonemes (Was Re: Eggcorn? "warn"> "worn")
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> I think a phoneme is missing. Am I wrong? Dang, I know it's something;
>>> it's
>>> on the tip of my tongue.
>>>
>>> Neal
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Tom Zurinskas"
>>> To:
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 2:54 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Eggcorn? "warn"> "worn"
>>>
>>>
>>>> Here's a good sentence to use that I made up containing all 40 USA
>>>> English
>>>> phonemes.
>>>>
>>>> That quick beige fox jumped in the air over each thin dog. Look out, I
>>>> shout, for he's foiled you again.
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
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