pron. of just

Herb Stahlke hfwstahlke at GMAIL.COM
Sun Mar 1 03:35:26 UTC 2009


I keep telling myself not to be drawn in, but obviously I haven't
convinced myself.  I'll say again what I think I said to Mark years
ago:  We seem to be dealing with a case of what the Jesuits used to
call "invincible ignorance."


On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 7:34 PM,  <RonButters at> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       RonButters at AOL.COM
> Subject:      =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=A0=20=A0=20=A0=20Re:=20[ADS-L]=20pron.=20o?
>              = =?ISO-8859-1?Q?f=20just?=
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Herb,
> I am sure that TZ cannot quite get away from being influenced bny the=20
> conventional spelling of vowels. However, it seems to me that part of the pr=
> oblem is=20
> that the arrogant Mr. Z refuses to acknowledge (1) the possibility that his=20
> "ear" may be wrong and (2) that the pronunciations of normally variable=20
> syllables do not HAVE TO BE (in the prescriptive sense) whatever chance vari=
> ation may=20
> occur (or he thinks he hears) in the sound file in the pronunciation on the=20
> M-W web site. So if the voice says (or seems to TZ to say) [sekrIteri] (wher=
> e by=20
>  [l] I intend to indicate a barred-cap-i and by the [i] to indicate a=20
> barred-noncap-i) then that is the ONLY POSSIBLE "CORRECT" PRONUNCIATION of t=
> he vowel=20
> in the second syllable. But if Z hears a schwa instead of [I], then he=20
> believes that "secretary" MUST be pronounced with a schwa and [I] is not jus=
> t=20
> variable, it is WRONG. So he gets confused when he sees M-W (which is appare=
> ntly=20
> written by God) representing these phonetic variations with a schwa, and tha=
> t is=20
> why he says that schwa is a symbol that represents several sounds. It does n=
> ot=20
> matter what the IPA says, what matters for him is the behavior of the sacred=
> =20
> text, the M-W (and of course the so fine an ear with which he is gifted, to=20
> paraphrase Yeats).
> Z's "system" cannot abide free variation, let alone dialect variation.=20
> In a message dated 2/28/09 6:46:42 PM, hfwstahlke at GMAIL.COM writes:
>> I checked the IPA web site.=A0 The IPA shows schwa in its vowel chart
>> specifically as an unrounded mid central vowel
>> ( The IPA transcription of
>> "International Phonetic Association" represents the RP pronunciation
>> in which all five schwas are that unrounded mid central vowel.=A0 They
>> do not represent other vowel sounds.=A0 They may correspond to different
>> spellings, but that's irrelevant.=A0 And note that "association" is
>> transcribed with a final syllabic /n/.
>> Herb
> **************
> Get a jump start on your taxes. Find a tax professional in your=20
> neighborhood today.=20
> (
> &ncid=3Demlcntusyelp00000004)
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