"Not All Men"

Fri Jun 6 02:32:32 UTC 2014

I too get "curly quotes and em-dashes and the like" mangled -- but it
is my email client's (Eudora's) failure to understand them.  (If one
reads Ann's message in the archives, it's fine.)

Joel

At 6/5/2014 12:29 AM, Ann Burlingham wrote:

>ah, thanks! it's probably some setting at my end, then.
>
>
>On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 12:25 AM, Jesse Sheidlower <jester at panix.com> wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Jesse Sheidlower <jester at PANIX.COM>
> > Subject:      Re: "Not All Men"
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Only one copy made it to the list, and it was in fine condition. Not
> > sure why you're getting a second version, or why it's not correctly
> > translating curly quotes and em-dashes and the like.
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 05, 2014 at 12:02:59AM -0400, Ann Burlingham wrote:
> > > (Oh, dear: i see I received two copies as a list member, one as it looked
> > > when I wrote it, all neat and nice, and the other as I sometimes see
> > > others' writing, full of messy mark-up notations. Is there a fix from my
> > > end, either as sender or receiver?)
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 11:50 PM, Ann Burlingham <ann at burlinghambooks.com
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > > -----------------------
> > > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > > Poster:       Ann Burlingham <ann at BURLINGHAMBOOKS.COM>
> > > > Subject:      "Not All Men"
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > I thought this discussion of the concept and phrase "Not all men" was
> > > > interesting, from Time back on April 28th. The author is Jess
> > ZImmerman. I
> > > > am always pleased to see Joanna Russ quoted, and the cartoon the
> > discussion
> > > > is pegged from in excellent. From the piece, the cartoonist comments:
> > > >
> > > > =E2=80=9CI don=E2=80=99t recall a very specific instance so much as it
> > was
> > > > =
> > > > sort of
> > > > everywhere, very suddenly!=E2=80=9D Lubchansky wrote in an email.
> > > > =E2=80=9C=
> > > > But instead of
> > > > this being something with a single origin, i think this phrase is
> > unique
> > > > among this kind of stuff because it was actually coming from the
> > mouths of
> > > > these dopes. Like some dummy would for REAL be coming at people talking
> > > > about racial or gender equality stuff, waving their arms and saying
> > =E2=80=
> > > > =98UM
> > > > ACTUALLY NOT ME!=E2=80=99=E2=80=9D
> > > >
> > > > Zimmerman writes:
> > > >
> > > > "It=E2=80=99s true that previous derailment favorites like
> > > > =E2=80=9Cpatriar=
> > > > chy hurts men
> > > > too=E2=80=9D were paraphrases in a way that =E2=80=9Cnot all
> > men=E2=80=9D
> > > > i=
> > > > s not. The demand is the
> > > > same =E2=80=94 =E2=80=9Cplease move me to the center of your
> > discussion=E2=
> > > > =80=9D =E2=80=94 but =E2=80=9Cnot all
> > > > men=E2=80=9D is, in many cases, straight from the horse=E2=80=99s
> > mouth;
> > > > ev=
> > > > en an amateur
> > > > Reddit spelunker can turn up plenty of sulky or defensive uses of the
> > > > phrase.
> > > >
> > > > =E2=80=9CNot all men=E2=80=9D also differs from =E2=80=9Cwhat about the
> > > > men=
> > > > ?=E2=80=9D and other classic
> > > > derails because it acknowledges that rape, sexism, and misogyny are
> > real
> > > > issues =E2=80=94 just not, you know, real issues that the speaker is
> > > > involv=
> > > > ed with
> > > > in any way. The =E2=80=9Cnot all men=E2=80=9D man, at least in some
> > cases,
> > > > =
> > > > agrees with you
> > > > and is perfectly willing to talk about how terrible those other guys
> > are,
> > > > just as soon as we get done establishing that he himself would never be
> > > > such a cad. It=E2=80=99s infuriating and unhelpful, but in a way it
> > > > represe=
> > > > nts a
> > > > weird kind of progress."
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> http://time.com/79357/not-all-men-a-brief-history-of-every-dudes-favorite-a=
> > > > rgument/
> > > >
> > > > --=20
> > > > Ann Burlingham
> > > > Burlingham Books
> > > > 2 South Main Street
> > > > Perry, NY 14530
> > > > Phone: 585-237-3190
> > > > Fax: 585-237-6465
> > > > www.burlinghambooks.com
> > > > Wyoming County Chamber of Commerce
> > > > Most Promising New Business 2007
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Ann Burlingham
> > > Burlingham Books
> > > 2 South Main Street
> > > Perry, NY 14530
> > > Phone: 585-237-3190
> > > Fax: 585-237-6465
> > > www.burlinghambooks.com
> > > Wyoming County Chamber of Commerce
> > > Most Promising New Business 2007
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
>
>
>--
>Ann Burlingham
>Burlingham Books
>2 South Main Street
>Perry, NY 14530
>Phone: 585-237-3190
>Fax: 585-237-6465
>www.burlinghambooks.com
>Wyoming County Chamber of Commerce
>Most Promising New Business 2007
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org