[Ads-l] Rosa Luxemburg Quote

Dan Goncharoff thegonch at GMAIL.COM
Thu Jun 4 02:57:09 UTC 2015


The copyright page of the 2012 edition clearly states "urspruenglich
erschienen" (originally published) in 1982.
On Jun 3, 2015 5:58 PM, "ADSGarson O'Toole" <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>
wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: Rosa Luxemburg Quote
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Thanks, Dan. One of the unverified citations I posted earlier was in a
> book about German popular culture circa 1981 that apparently was
> published by 1982.
>
> Title: Jugend '81: Lebensentw=C3=BCrfe, Alltagskulturen, Zukunftsbilder
> GTrans: Youth '81: lifestyles, everyday cultures, visions of the future
> (GTrans means Google Translation)
>
> Google Books has the 1982 book in snippet mode, but the database also
> has a 2013 reprint that is in preview mode; hence, more of it is
> visible.
> Here is a link into the 1982 edition:
>
> https://books.google.com/books?id=3D8u8oAAAAYAAJ&focus=3Dsearchwithinvolume=
> &q=3DFesseln
> Short link: http://bit.ly/1RKmjDF
>
> Here is a link into the 2013 reprint:
> https://books.google.com/books?id=3DWnF_BwAAQBAJ&q=3DFesseln+#v=3Dsnippet&
> Short link: http://bit.ly/1JmelPJ
>
> If you follow the link immediately above please click on the displayed
> snippet box to see the full page in preview mode.
>
> The section containing the slogan is called "Maximen und Reflexionen"
> (GTrans: Maxims and Reflections)
>
> If you can read German perhaps you would be willing to take a look and
> see if the book looks like it was really originally published in 1982.
>
> Here is more of the context. It looks like a bunch of maxims and slogans.
>
> [Begin extracted text =E2=80=93 special characters replaced]
> ... weil man machen kann, was man will, aber wichtig dabei ist, daB
> man immer will, was man macht - Seht die Behinderten wie uns auch an -
> Wer sich nicht bewegt, der spurt die Fesseln nicht - Ich suche den
> Frieden und beginne bei mir - Die Zeit ist schnell irgendwann uberholt
> sie dich, dann bist du tot - Gegen die Stromung, gegen den Wind -
> Lieber sinnvoll schweigen als gedanken voll schwatzen
> [End extracted text]
>
> Garson
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 5:05 PM, Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at gmail.com> wrote:
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------=
> ------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at GMAIL.COM>
> > Subject:      Re: Rosa Luxemburg Quote
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
> >
> > This discussion, auf Deutsch, pushes it another year earlier, to 1988:
> >
> >
> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProjekt_Marxismus/Caf%C3%A9/Ar=
> ch=3D
> > iv/2012#Rosa_Luxemburg.3F
> >
> > Mit Bezug auf dieLiebknecht-Luxemburg-Demonstration#Deutsche
> Demokratisch=
> e
> > Republik
> > <
> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebknecht-Luxemburg-Demonstration#Deutsche=
> _D=3D
> > emokratische_Republik>
> > am
> > 17. Januar 1988 hat Ilse Spittmann
> > <
> http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=3D3DIlse_Spittmann&action=3D3D=
> edit&r=3D
> > edlink=3D3D1>
> >  geschrieben:
> > "Sie w=3DC3=3DA4hlten Zitate von Rosa Luxemburg f=3DC3=3DBCr ihre
> selbstg=
> efertigten
> > Transparente : =3DC2=3DBBFreiheit ist immer die Freiheit der
> Andersdenken=
> den=3DC2=3D
> > =3DAB, =3DC2=3DBBWer
> > sich nicht bewegt, sp=3DC3=3DBCrt die Fesseln nicht=3DC2=3DAB." (Der 17.
> =
> Januar und=3D
> >  die
> > Folgen, in Deutschland Archiv 3, 1988, Seite 227)
> >
> > Referring to the Liebknecht - Luxembourg demonstration # German
> Democrati=
> c
> > Republic on 17 January 1988 Ilse Spittmann wrote :" They chose quotes
> fro=
> m
> > Rosa Luxembourg for their home-made banners : " Freedom is always the
> > freedom of dissenters " , " Who does not move ,does not feel the
> shackles=
>  "
> > . " ( January 17 and the consequences , in Germany Archive 3 , 1988, page
> > 227 )
> >
> >
> >
> > DanG
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 4:26 PM, ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.
> =
> co=3D
> > m
> >> wrote:
> >
> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> -----------------------
> >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> Poster:       ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
> >> Subject:      Re: Rosa Luxemburg Quote
> >>
> >>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> -=3D
> > ------
> >>
> >> In addition to the citations with unverified 1982 GB dates that I
> >> posted previously I should mention that Barry has an entry for the
> >> English expression with a 2007 citation.
> >>
> >> Entry from October 20, 2013
> >> "Those who do not move do not notice their chains"
> >>
> >>
> http://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/those_who_do_not=
> _=3D
> > mo=3D3D
> >> ve_do_not_notice_their_chains
> >>
> >> Here is a snippet match in Google Books that is tagged with the year
> 200=
> 6=3D
> > .
> >>
> >> Year: 2006
> >> Title: Report of Congress
> >> Author: Trades Union Congress
> >> (Google Books snippet; data must be verified)
> >> https://books.google.com/books?id=3D3D3DxRooAQAAIAAJ
> >>
> >> [Begin extracted text]
> >> Workers only feel the full force of anti-union law when they
> >> themselves take action, when they find their hands tied behind their
> >> backs, as Rosa Luxembourg observed, "Those who do not move do not
> >> notice their chains." So, despite the ...
> >> [End extracted text]
> >>
> >> There is a discussion of the quotation here:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> https://librarianshipwreck.wordpress.com/2013/07/06/reference-desk-unans=
> w=3D
> > er=3D3D
> >> ed-questions/
> >>
> >> One reply on the thread asserts the quote appeared on a banner during
> >> a protest in Germany in 1989. (Note that the previous post on this
> >> thread has earlier unverified evidence).
> >>
> >> [Begin excerpt]
> >> I asked the Marxist Internet Archive as suggested, and quickly
> >> received the following reply, which seems to find the quote to be
> >> apocryphal:
> >>
> >> =3D3DE2=3D3D80=3D3D9CThe German version of this (alleged) quote is
> =3D3D=
> E2=3D3D80=3D
> > =3D3D9CWer sich
> >> ni=3D3D
> >> cht bewegt,
> >> sp=3D3DC3=3D3DBCrt seine Fesseln nicht.=3D3DE2=3D3D80=3D3D9D It has
> been=
>  attributed=3D
> >  to Rosa
> >> Lux=3D3D
> >> emburg
> >> by many people and she did say some things that have a similar meaning
> >> but none of the discussions I=3D3DE2=3D3D80=3D3D99ve read have been
> able=
>  to quo=3D
> > te
> >> where=3D3D
> >>  it
> >> came from. While it may appear in one of her letters (most of them
> >> aren=3D3DE2=3D3D80=3D3D99t online yet), the earliest definite reference
> =
> to this
> >> stateme=3D3D
> >> nt
> >> seems to be a banner on an opposition demonstration in the GDR on 17
> >> January 1989 (i.e. on the 70th anniversary of her murder)!
> >> [End excerpt]
> >>
> >> Garson
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 12:54 PM, ADSGarson O'Toole
> >> <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> -----------------=3D3D
> >> ------
> >> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> > Poster:       ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
> >> > Subject:      Re: Rosa Luxemburg Quote
> >> >
> >>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> -=3D
> > =3D3D
> >> ------
> >> >
> >> > Here are two raw matches in Google Books that are tagged with the year
> >> > 1982. I cannot read German so I am using Google Translate.
> >> >
> >> > The two matching phrases were:
> >> >
> >> > Wer sich nicht bewegt, der sp=3D3D3DC3=3D3D3DBCrt die Fesseln nicht.
> >> > Wer sich nicht bewegt, sp=3D3D3DC3=3D3D3DBCrt die Fesseln nicht.
> >> >
> >> > Title: Protokoll Gewerkschaft Textil-Bekleidung: 14. Ordentlicher
> >> > Gewerkschaftstag in Mainz Rheingoldhalle, 17. Okt. bis 22. Okt. 1982
> >> > Author: Gewerkschaft Textil-Bekleidung. Hauptvorstand
> >> > Publisher: Gewerkschaft Textil-Bekleidung, Hauptvorstand, 1982
> >> > (Google Books snippet; data may be inaccurate and must be verified)
> >> > https://books.google.com/books?id=3D3D3D3D2-1aAAAAYAAJ&
> >> >
> >> > [Begin extracted text]
> >> > Und allen, die die gewerkschaftliche Jugendarbeit zweifeind.
> >> > vielleicht sogar ein wenig mi=3D3D3DC3=3D3D3D9Ftrauisch begleiten und
> >> kommentiere=3D3D
> >> n,
> >> > sage ich: Wer sich nicht bewegt, sp=3D3D3DC3=3D3D3DBCrt die Fesseln
> ni=
> cht.
> >> > Solidarisches Denken und Handeln, =3D3D3DC3=3D3D3DBCber die ...
> >> > [End extracted text]
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Title: Jugend '81: Lebensentw=3D3D3DC3=3D3D3DBCrfe, Alltagskulturen,
> >> Zukunftsbild=3D3D
> >> er :
> >> > Studie, Volume 1
> >> > Volume 9 of [Jugendstudie / Jugendwerk der Deutschen Shell]
> >> > Editor: Arthur Fischer
> >> > Contributors: Arthur Fischer, Deutsche Shell AG. Jugendwerk, Psydata,
> >> > Institut f=3D3D3DC3=3D3D3DBCr Marktanalysen, Sozial- und
> Mediaforschun=
> g
> >> > Publisher: Leske + Budrich, 1982
> >> > (Google Books snippet; data may be inaccurate and must be verified)
> >> > https://books.google.com/books?id=3D3D3D3D8u8oAAAAYAAJ&
> >> >
> >> > [Begin extracted text]
> >> > ... weil man machen kann, was man will, aber wichtig dabei ist,
> da=3D3=
> D3D=3D
> > C3=3D3D
> >> =3D3D3D9F
> >> > man immer will, was man macht - Seht die Behinderten wie uns auch an -
> >> > Wer sich nicht bewegt, der sp=3D3D3DC3=3D3D3DBCrt die Fesseln nicht -
> =
> Ich s=3D
> > uche
> >> d=3D3D
> >> en
> >> > Frieden und beginne bei mir - Die ...
> >> > [End extracted text]
> >> >
> >> > Garson
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 11:42 AM, Stephen Goranson <goranson at duke.edu>
> >> wro=3D3D
> >> te=3D3D3D
> >> > :
> >> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> ----------------=3D3D
> >> -=3D3D3D
> >> > ------
> >> >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> >> Poster:       Stephen Goranson <goranson at DUKE.EDU>
> >> >> Subject:      Re: Rosa Luxemburg Quote
> >> >>
> >>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> =3D
> > =3D3D
> >> -=3D3D3D
> >> > ------
> >> >>
> >> >> FWIW--maybe you have this or something earlier already-- "Wer sich
> >> nicht=3D3D
> >>  =3D3D3D
> >> > be=3D3D3D3D
> >> >> wegt, sp=3D3D3D3DFCrt seine Fesseln nicht" according to HT probably
> (=
> I
> >> haven=3D3D
> >> 't =3D3D3D
> >> > seen=3D3D3D3D
> >> >>  the publication) appears in
> >> >>  Frauen-Graffiti :
> >> >> "Als Gott den Mann erschuf, het sie bloss ge=3D3D3D3DFCbt" /
> >> >> Saskia Schlesinger
> >> >> 1985 Originalausg.
> >> >> German Book Book 128 unnumbered pages : illustrations ; 18 cm.
> >> >> M=3D3D3D3DFCnchen : W. Heyne, ; ISBN: 345335057X
> 9783453350571=3D3D3D=
> 3D20
> >> >>
> >> >> "sequence No.41"
> >> >> (though apparently without Rosa Luxemburg)
> >> >>
> >> >> Stephen Goranson
> >> >> http://people.duke.edu/~goranson/
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ________________________________________
> >> >> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> >> Sha=3D3D
> >> p=3D3D3D
> >> > ir=3D3D3D3D
> >> >> o, Fred <fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU>
> >> >> Sent: Wednesday, June 3, 2015 11:08 AM
> >> >> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >> >> Subject: [ADS-L] Rosa Luxemburg Quote
> >> >>
> >> >> The quotation "Those who do not move, do not notice their chains" is
> >> fre=3D3D
> >> q=3D3D3D
> >> > ue=3D3D3D3D
> >> >> ntly attributed to Rosa Luxemburg.  I am trying to trace the earliest
> >> at=3D3D
> >> t=3D3D3D
> >> > ri=3D3D3D3D
> >> >> bution to Luxemburg, or to anyone else if there were other
> attributio=
> n=3D
> > s
> >> =3D3D
> >> p=3D3D3D
> >> > re=3D3D3D3D
> >> >> dating the ones to her, and would welcome any citations or pointers
> t=
> o
> >> p=3D3D
> >> o=3D3D3D
> >> > ss=3D3D3D3D
> >> >> ible occurrences.
> >> >>
> >> >> Fred Shapiro
> >> >>
> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >> >
> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

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