[Ads-l] False attribution for "If you are depressed, ..." (Zen comment, too)

ADSGarson O'Toole adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM
Sun Mar 22 09:42:58 UTC 2015


Thanks for the responses.  Jeff, below is more of the extracted text
from the journal "Voices" to show where the line "SECOND VERSE" seems
to be located. A search for "SECOND VERSE" within the volume displays
a snippet showing "SECOND VERSE" and some additional text below on GB
page 83:

http://bit.ly/1CLlIOn

[Begin extracted text]
Living in the past is depression; living in the future is anxiety;
living in the present is living in the present.

If realists are not depressed, does this tell you something about
psychotherapists?

Depression is a disease of civilization; therefore it is a meta
feeling and differs from grief or sadness.

Psychotherapists are depressed because they have avoided becoming
desperate enough to give up a belief in the future.

SECOND VERSE

Psychotherapists as a group are a bunch of guilt-ridden, moralistic,
romantic, do-gooders.
[End extracted text]

Below is a partial thematic match that was not based on Chinese
philosophy or psychoanalysis. The text appeared in a Church of England
sermon in 1892. The salient points of similarity were:

1) The advice employed a tripartite time flow structure.
2) Living in the past was criticized as "foolish and dangerous".
3) Living in the future produced "anxiety and discontent".
4) Living in the present was praised and described as using "rightly
the present hour".

[ref] 1892, The Church of England Pulpit and Ecclesiastical Review,
Our Daily Bread by the Ven. Archdeacon Farrar, Sermon Preached in
Westminster Abbey on August 7, 1892, Start Page 133, Quote Page 135,
(HathiTrust Full View) link link [/ref]

http://hdl.handle.net/2027/uiug.30112028229174
http://hdl.handle.net/2027/uiug.30112028229174?urlappend=%3Bseq=143

[Begin excerpt]
There is a foolish and dangerous living in the past which Christ
reproves when He says: "Let the dead bury their dead," and which St.
Paul also reproves when he says: "Forgetting those things that are
behind." There is a morbid and faithless living in the future, the
mother of anxiety and discontent, which Christ reproves when He said:
"Be not over anxious about the morrow, for the morrow shall care for
the things of itself."

Thus, then, Christ would teach us to use rightly the present hour, to
take one step upward and then secure that step, to live out nobly and
truly the life of each day, day by day...
[End excerpt]

Garson


On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 4:49 PM, Benjamin Barrett <gogaku at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Benjamin Barrett <gogaku at IX.NETCOM.COM>
> Subject:      Re: False attribution for "If you are depressed, ..." (Zen
>               comment, too)
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Thank you for finding this excellent citation.
>
> It seems like it could be a convergence. I wonder if Junia Bretas has
> cited that or something similar.
>
> BB
>
>> ADSGarson O'Toole <mailto:adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
>> March 18, 2015 at 3:47 PM
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society<ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       ADSGarson O'Toole<adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
>> Subject:      Re: False attribution for "If you are depressed, ..." (Zen
>>                comment, too)
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> There is a partial match for the quotation in a journal called Voices.
>> The year is probably in the range 1977-1979. There is no attribution
>> visible in the snippets.
>>
>> The lines excerpted below seem to be part of a poem or quasi-poem
>> because the phrase "SECOND VERSE" appears a few lines after the
>> excerpt. Thw lines seem to be adages about psychotherapy.
>>
>> Journal: Voices
>> Volume: 12, 13, or 14
>> Year: 1977, 1978, or 1979
>> Quote Page 83
>> (Google Books snippet view; data may be inaccurate; volumes 12, 13,
>> and 14 are visible in snippets; catalog shows years corresponding to
>> volumes; years are also visible in snippets)
>>
>> [Begin excerpt]
>> The only effective psychotherapy is done for money.
>> Anger is just depression turned outward.
>> Living in the past is depression; living in the future is anxiety;
>> living in the present is living in the present.
>> If realists are not depressed, does this tell you something about
>> psychotherapists?
>> [End excerpt]
>>
>> Garson
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 4:24 PM, Benjamin Barrett<gogaku at ix.netcom.com>  wr=
>> ote:
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------=
>> ------
>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society<ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> Poster:       Benjamin Barrett<gogaku at IX.NETCOM.COM>
>>> Subject:      Re: False attribution for "If you are depressed, ..." (Zen
>>>                comment, too)
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>> ------
>>> I think that's a Zen thing--or perhaps a Ch=E1n thing :) BB
>>>
>>>> Jonathan Lighter<mailto:wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>>>> March 16, 2015 at 7:27 AM
>>>> It doesn't even make sense.  When I live in the future, I'm anxious *and=
>> *
>>>> depressed. When I live in the present, I'm distracted or confused. When =
>> I
>>>> live in the past, then I'm at peace.
>>>>
>>>> JL
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 8:30 PM, Benjamin Barrett<gogaku at ix.netcom.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society<ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>> Poster:       Benjamin Barrett<gogaku at IX.NETCOM.COM>
>>>>> Subject:      False attribution for "If you are depressed, ..." (Zen
>>>>> comment,
>>>>>                 too)
>>>>>
>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------=
>> --=3D
>>>> ------
>>>>> I just saw the following on Facebook:
>>>>>
>>>>> =3DE2=3D80=3D9CIf you are depressed you are living in the past. If you =
>> are anxi=3D
>>>> ous you
>>>>> are living in the future. If you are at peace you are living in the
>>>>> present. - Lao Tzu"
>>>>>
>>>>> Among the webpages debunking this citation is
>>>>> http://ianchadwick.com/blog/poor-lao-tzu-he-gets-blamed-for-so-much/,
>>>>> written by Ian Chadwick on October 9, 2013. I gave up trying to find an
>>>>> earliest citation for this; the Internet is filled with this quote and
>>>>> Google is filled with incorrect date hits.
>>>>>
>>>>> This claim is not only in English; it can be found in Portuguese. The
>>>>> earliest I find is 15 April 2012 at http://blogdojj.com.br/tag/passado/=
>> .
>>>>> =3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D
>>>>> "Se voc=3DC3=3DAA est=3DC3=3DA1 deprimido,
>>>>> Voc=3DC3=3DAA est=3DC3=3DA1 vivendo no passado:
>>>>> se voc=3DC3=3DAA est=3DC3=3DA1 ansioso,
>>>>> Voc=3DC3=3DAA est=3DC3=3DA1 vivendo no futuro:
>>>>> Se voc=3DC3=3DAA est=3DC3=3DA1 em paz voc=3DC3=3DAA est=3DC3=3DA1 viven=
>> do
>>>>> no presente."
>>>>> =3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D
>>>>>
>>>>> In August 2012, http://oquevocegosta.blogspot.com/2012/08/lao-tzu.html
>>>>> has this exact Portuguese wording, but--despite the Lao Tzu
>>>>> URL--attributes it to Junia Bretas. This attribution is echoed at
>>>>> http://www.wisdomcommons.org/wisbits/4785-if-you-are-depressed-you-are.
>>>>> I do not find it on her website at http://www.juniabretas.info/. Her
>>>>> book, "Lideran=3DC3=3DA7a Estrat=3DC3=3DA9gica" is shown at
>>>>> http://www.juniabretas.info/#!livros/c18tj but cannot be searched.
>>>>>
>>>>> As an aside, this quote is tagged as "Zen" at
>>>>> http://www.movemequotes.com/tag/anxiety/.
>>>>>
>
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