[Ads-l] Where are the PC police?

W Brewer brewerwa at GMAIL.COM
Sun Sep 18 17:21:11 EDT 2016


RH: << I could dig out the Arne-Thomson number of the motif if anyone's
interested. >>
WB:  Tsk-tsk-tsk.  Aarne-Thompson **tale type** 2033; Thompson **motif**
2033. Aarne-Thompson-Uther tale type 2033 "The Sky is Falling".


On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 10:31 PM, Robin Hamilton <
robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com> wrote:

> That Wikipedia entry sure is one impressive piece of work and no mistake,
> though
> I'd tend to describe at least some of the other versions as "analogues"
> rather
> than "sources".
>
> Only two things of substance I'd want to add.  One is that, as part of the
> British line of development, there's a lovely short novel called _The
> Conceited
> Pig_ published anonymously (circa 1848).  This can be found (among other
> places)
> here (with further details below my sig.):
>
>
>      http://digital.nls.uk/early-gaelic-book-collections/
> pageturner.cfm?id=78655893&mode=transcription
> http://digital.nls.uk/early-gaelic-book-collections/
> pageturner.cfm?id=78655893&mode=transcription
>
> This is well worth reading (it's actually to my mind rather funny) and, as
> is
> characteristic of the British line of development, much less moralistic
> than
> Chandler.
>
> The other point is that the printed version of _The Remarkable Story of
> Chicken
> Little_ is based on a longer manuscript version which only reappeared in
> 1935.
>  Again, further details below.
>
> Robin.
>
> ________________
>
>           On a Conceited Pig called Wilbur:
>
>
> <<  Chambers’ 1842 version was reprinted as part of his collected works in
> 1847,
> and again in 1870. As early as the late 1840s, less than six years after
> its
> first appearance, the narrative was adapted and expanded as _The Conceited
> Pig_
> (pre-1848?), which introduced a pig named Wilbur. The anonymous author
> continued
> with _Miss Peck’s Adventures_ (London, 1848), featuring a sour and
> spinsterish
> hen named Miss Peck.
>
> ...
>
> NOTE:   _The Conceited Pig_ (London, 1852) – Probably pre-1848. While this
> is
> the earliest text I’ve been able to see, there are several books listed by
> Worldcat as published in 1848, including an edition of _Miss Peck’s
> Adventures_,
> which read, “by the author of The Conceited Pig.”]
>
> In an advert in Rev. W.B.Flower, _Try Again_ (1848), _Miss Peck’s
> Adventures_ is
> described as in preparation, and about to be issued, so _The Conceited
> Pig_ was
> almost certainly printed before 1848.
>
> The novelist Charlotte E. Yonge commented approvingly on this tale,
> comparing it
> favourably to Halliwell’s version and suggested that it was developed from
> the
> Scottish version provided by Chambers.  >>
>
> _________
>
>           On the Earlier Chandler Version
>
> Herbert H. Hosmer, Jr. (ed.,), _The Remarkable History of Chicken Little,
>  1840-1940 [by]  John Greene Chandler_ (Privately printed at The College
> Press,
> South Lancaster, Massachusetts, 1941).
>
> This provides a full transcription of Chandler's manuscript, and some
> details of
> Chandler's life.  The commentary is tooth-numbingly saccharine, and the
> manuscript itself is even more moralistic than the shorter version, but
> Hosmer
> does include material not found anywhere else, with regard to Chandler's
> biography.
>
> R.
>
> ___________________________
>
> >
> >     On 18 September 2016 at 11:56 "Shapiro, Fred" <fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >     Wikipedia has a thorough discussion of the Danish and American
> sources for
> > Chicken Little.
> >
> >
> >     By coincidence, my wife was very recently checking the Yale copy of
> the
> > 1840 publication with the first use of "Chicken Little" for the OED.
> >
> >
> >     Fred Shapiro
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >     From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf
> of Robin
> > Hamilton <robin.hamilton3 at VIRGINMEDIA.COM>
> >     Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2016 12:50 AM
> >     To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >     Subject: Re: Where are the PC police?
> >
> >     Damn! I totally forgot this till now, as I came on it well after I'd
> done
> > most
> >     of what work I did in this area:
> >
> >     Katherine M. Briggs, _A Dictionary of British Folk-Tales_, Part A
> Folk
> >     Narratives Vol. 2 (of a total of 4 volumes):
> >
> >     pp.515 ff. for Chicken-Licken and derived/related texts
> >
> >     pp.531 ff. for The Hen and Her Fellow-Travellers and derived/related
> texts
> >
> >     A much more reliable text than Ashliman, where they overlap, but not
> I
> > think
> >     available as easily. Note also that it's _British_ Folk-Tales, so no
> John
> >     Greene Chandler or Joel Chandler Harris.
> >
> >     (Just pulled that from my shelves, where it sits above and slightly
> to the
> > left
> >     of the only two volumes of HDAS that OUP will allow us to read.
> Phoey!!!!)
> >
> >     Robin
> >
> >     _____________________________
> >
> >     >
> >     > On 18 September 2016 at 05:30 Robin Hamilton
> >     > <robin.hamilton3 at VIRGINMEDIA.COM> wrote:
> >     >
> >     >
> >     > There's this, for a complete text:
> >     >
> >     > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__
> archive.org_stream_remarkablestoryo00bostiala-
> 23page_n0_mode_2up&d=CwICaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=
> sRkhHMQo6W5Ird1lkQFqb23bCfSHAR2XjUSUG53db5M&m=
> ZeZFnPBjToq6EJOV76xtJTSEU19N4CbA9hE-8KQr-hE&s=_8paVknT-
> IfJo4L_WkITmmzYVozR_xucXTc2rpvjvYo&e=
> >     >
> >     > It doesn't show up on an obvious google (or internal Internet
> Archive)
> >     > search,
> >     > as John Greene Chandler's name has been removed in the course of
> >     > (various?)
> >     > reprinting(s), but you can get to it via the title.
> >     >
> >     > Not the original 1840 edition, where the illustrations are in
> colour,
> >     > but
> >     > as far
> >     > as I can make out, otherwise identical.
> >     >
> >     > I'm not absolutely sure, as I've never managed to get my eyes near
> a
> >     > proper
> >     > first edition to check it against, but probably good enough for
> >     > government
> >     > work.
> >     >
> >     > (Thinking about it, I'm not even absolutely sure that the
> illustrations
> >     > originally *were* in colour. I've seen images like that, but they
> may
> >     > have
> >     > been
> >     > coloured after the fact.)
> >     >
> >     > Actually, comparing the text from the link above, with the images
> Garson
> >     > links
> >     > to below, they seem (a) to be, with the exception that Chandler's
> name
> >     > is
> >     > obliterated from the cover of the reprint, identical, and (b) to my
> >     > untrained
> >     > eye, the colours in the americanantiquarian images look as if they
> were
> >     > hand-painted onto/into an originally penny-plain text.
> >     >
> >     > Which is what would more likely be found at a country fair, which
> was
> >     > where
> >     > Chandler sold it first.
> >     >
> >     > Robin
> >     >
> >     > (Who unlike Garson, managed to totally misremember the date. With
> the
> >     > correct
> >     > date of 1840, Chandler beats the first printing of the Scottish
> version
> >     > by
> >     > two
> >     > years, and takes the crown. More, possibly, if the longer
> [abominably
> >     > prolix]
> >     > MS version which lies behind the printed text was written
> substantially
> >     > earlier.)
> >     >
> >     > Incidentally, there's a raft of versions, including the 1849
> >     > Halliwell-Phillipps
> >     > one, here:
> >     >
> >     > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.
> pitt.edu_-7Edash_type2033.html-23chambers1841&d=CwICaQ&
> c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=sRkhHMQo6W5Ird1lkQFqb23bCfSHAR2XjUSUG53db5M&m=
> ZeZFnPBjToq6EJOV76xtJTSEU19N4CbA9hE-8KQr-hE&s=e8yA-
> qifbY4ROK1RmKzb7_R3FHgTy2-8l0C7xQuS-5w&e=
> >     >
> >     > The Scottish version should [but doesn't] carry a health-warning.
> It's,
> >     > to
> >     > put
> >     > it mildly, "translated" into English. On the whole, I really like
> >     > Ashliman's
> >     > site, both here and beyond the issue at hand, but in that instance
> ...
> >     > words
> >     > fail me. :-(
> >     >
> >     > R.
> >     >
> >     > >
> >     > > On 18 September 2016 at 04:14 ADSGarson O'Toole
> >     > > <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> >     > >
> >     > >
> >     > > Back in 2010 I mentioned that "Google Books contains a document
> titled
> >     > > 'Remarkable Story of Chicken Little' by John Greene Chandler
> dated
> >     > > 1840 but it cannot be examined because there is 'No preview
> >     > > available'."
> >     > >
> >     > > Robin just sent me (off-list) some additional bibliographical
> data
> >     > > about this 1840 edition.
> >     > >
> >     > > Now, I see that American Antiquarian Society based in Worcester,
> >     > > Massachusetts has an "extremely rare first edition" from 1840,
> and
> >     > > they have posted scans of a few pages.
> >     > >
> >     > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.
> americanantiquarian.org_Exhibitions_View_7_fig7-5F7.htm&d=CwICaQ&c=-
> dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=sRkhHMQo6W5Ird1lkQFqb23bCfSHAR2XjUSUG53db5M&m=
> ZeZFnPBjToq6EJOV76xtJTSEU19N4CbA9hE-8KQr-hE&s=XBgZExdSQO-
> CcjNdGOCSi3I0ZdznrnHACEhTEae32Nc&e=
> >     > >
> >     > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.
> americanantiquarian.org_Exhibitions_Inpursuit_case8_
> case8-5F11.htm&d=CwICaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=
> sRkhHMQo6W5Ird1lkQFqb23bCfSHAR2XjUSUG53db5M&m=
> ZeZFnPBjToq6EJOV76xtJTSEU19N4CbA9hE-8KQr-hE&s=eLm_
> xRj5RmQLFdIQQ9CfqHVWwEnm8_kR4-d6mbpq9HQ&e=
> >     > >
> >     > > There is a downloadable PDF at the second link that contains a
> few
> >     > > pages. Here is the story text on the pages. Please double-check
> for
> >     > > errors. The main plot event: A leaf fell on the tail of Chicken
> >     > > Little.
> >     > >
> >     > > [Begin text of page 1]
> >     > > Did you ever hear of Chicken Little, how she disturbed a whole
> >     > > neighborhood by her foolish alarm?
> >     > > [End text]
> >     > >
> >     > > [Begin text of page 2]
> >     > > Well, Chicken Little was running about in a gentleman's garden,
> where
> >     > > she had no business to be: she ran under a rose-bush, and a leaf
> fell
> >     > > on her tail; so she was dreadfully frightened, and ran away to
> Hen
> >     > > Pen.
> >     > > [End excerpt]
> >     > >
> >     > > Page 3 and subsequent pages are not displayed on the website of
> the
> >     > > American Antiquarian Society. The text below is from a later
> section
> >     > > of the story. It contains the key phrase "the sky is falling".
> This
> >     > > text was displayed in the back cover, I think.
> >     > >
> >     > > [Begin text (located on back cover, I think)]
> >     > > "O Duck Luck!" says Hen Pen, "the sky is falling." "How do you
> know
> >     > > it?" says Duck Luck. "Chicken Little told me." "Chicken Little,
> how do
> >     > > you know it?" "O, I saw it with my eyes, I heard it with my
> ears, and
> >     > > part of it fell on my tail. O, come, let us run!"
> >     > > [End text]
> >     > >
> >     > > Garson
> >     > >
> >     > >
> >     > >
> >     >
> >     > ------------------------------------------------------------
> >     > The American Dialect Society -
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> >     >
> >
> >     ------------------------------------------------------------
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> VPDJSE46hU05RBYU&e=
> >
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> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
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>

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