[Ads-l] Where are the PC police?

Robin Hamilton robin.hamilton3 at VIRGINMEDIA.COM
Sun Sep 18 17:57:14 EDT 2016


Ooops (blushes and hangs his head in shame).

I stand properly corrected, Bill, and bow humbly to your superior knowledge and
intellect and ... whatever (as the Frog would say).  :-)

But see my reply to your following post.

Robin

> 
>     On 18 September 2016 at 22:21 W Brewer <brewerwa at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> 
> 
>     RH: << I could dig out the Arne-Thomson number of the motif if anyone's
>     interested. >>
>     WB: Tsk-tsk-tsk. Aarne-Thompson **tale type** 2033; Thompson **motif**
>     2033. Aarne-Thompson-Uther tale type 2033 "The Sky is Falling".
> 
> 
>     On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 10:31 PM, Robin Hamilton <
>     robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com> wrote:
> 
>     > That Wikipedia entry sure is one impressive piece of work and no
>     > mistake,
>     > though
>     > I'd tend to describe at least some of the other versions as "analogues"
>     > rather
>     > than "sources".
>     >
>     > Only two things of substance I'd want to add. One is that, as part of
>     > the
>     > British line of development, there's a lovely short novel called _The
>     > Conceited
>     > Pig_ published anonymously (circa 1848). This can be found (among other
>     > places)
>     > here (with further details below my sig.):
>     >
>     >
>     > http://digital.nls.uk/early-gaelic-book-collections/
>     > pageturner.cfm?id=78655893&mode=transcription
>     > http://digital.nls.uk/early-gaelic-book-collections/
>     > pageturner.cfm?id=78655893&mode=transcription
>     >
>     > This is well worth reading (it's actually to my mind rather funny) and,
>     > as
>     > is
>     > characteristic of the British line of development, much less moralistic
>     > than
>     > Chandler.
>     >
>     > The other point is that the printed version of _The Remarkable Story of
>     > Chicken
>     > Little_ is based on a longer manuscript version which only reappeared in
>     > 1935.
>     > Again, further details below.
>     >
>     > Robin.
>     >
>     > ________________
>     >
>     > On a Conceited Pig called Wilbur:
>     >
>     >
>     > << Chambers’ 1842 version was reprinted as part of his collected works
>     > in
>     > 1847,
>     > and again in 1870. As early as the late 1840s, less than six years after
>     > its
>     > first appearance, the narrative was adapted and expanded as _The
>     > Conceited
>     > Pig_
>     > (pre-1848?), which introduced a pig named Wilbur. The anonymous author
>     > continued
>     > with _Miss Peck’s Adventures_ (London, 1848), featuring a sour and
>     > spinsterish
>     > hen named Miss Peck.
>     >
>     > ...
>     >
>     > NOTE: _The Conceited Pig_ (London, 1852) – Probably pre-1848. While this
>     > is
>     > the earliest text I’ve been able to see, there are several books listed
>     > by
>     > Worldcat as published in 1848, including an edition of _Miss Peck’s
>     > Adventures_,
>     > which read, “by the author of The Conceited Pig.”]
>     >
>     > In an advert in Rev. W.B.Flower, _Try Again_ (1848), _Miss Peck’s
>     > Adventures_ is
>     > described as in preparation, and about to be issued, so _The Conceited
>     > Pig_ was
>     > almost certainly printed before 1848.
>     >
>     > The novelist Charlotte E. Yonge commented approvingly on this tale,
>     > comparing it
>     > favourably to Halliwell’s version and suggested that it was developed
>     > from
>     > the
>     > Scottish version provided by Chambers. >>
>     >
>     > _________
>     >
>     > On the Earlier Chandler Version
>     >
>     > Herbert H. Hosmer, Jr. (ed.,), _The Remarkable History of Chicken
>     > Little,
>     > 1840-1940 [by] John Greene Chandler_ (Privately printed at The College
>     > Press,
>     > South Lancaster, Massachusetts, 1941).
>     >
>     > This provides a full transcription of Chandler's manuscript, and some
>     > details of
>     > Chandler's life. The commentary is tooth-numbingly saccharine, and the
>     > manuscript itself is even more moralistic than the shorter version, but
>     > Hosmer
>     > does include material not found anywhere else, with regard to Chandler's
>     > biography.
>     >
>     > R.
>     >
>     > ___________________________
>     >
>     > >
>     > > On 18 September 2016 at 11:56 "Shapiro, Fred" <fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU
>     > >
>     > > wrote:
>     > >
>     > >
>     > > Wikipedia has a thorough discussion of the Danish and American
>     > sources for
>     > > Chicken Little.
>     > >
>     > >
>     > > By coincidence, my wife was very recently checking the Yale copy of
>     > the
>     > > 1840 publication with the first use of "Chicken Little" for the OED.
>     > >
>     > >
>     > > Fred Shapiro
>     > >
>     > >
>     > >
>     > >
>     > > From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf
>     > of Robin
>     > > Hamilton <robin.hamilton3 at VIRGINMEDIA.COM>
>     > > Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2016 12:50 AM
>     > > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>     > > Subject: Re: Where are the PC police?
>     > >
>     > > Damn! I totally forgot this till now, as I came on it well after I'd
>     > done
>     > > most
>     > > of what work I did in this area:
>     > >
>     > > Katherine M. Briggs, _A Dictionary of British Folk-Tales_, Part A
>     > Folk
>     > > Narratives Vol. 2 (of a total of 4 volumes):
>     > >
>     > > pp.515 ff. for Chicken-Licken and derived/related texts
>     > >
>     > > pp.531 ff. for The Hen and Her Fellow-Travellers and derived/related
>     > texts
>     > >
>     > > A much more reliable text than Ashliman, where they overlap, but not
>     > I
>     > > think
>     > > available as easily. Note also that it's _British_ Folk-Tales, so no
>     > John
>     > > Greene Chandler or Joel Chandler Harris.
>     > >
>     > > (Just pulled that from my shelves, where it sits above and slightly
>     > to the
>     > > left
>     > > of the only two volumes of HDAS that OUP will allow us to read.
>     > Phoey!!!!)
>     > >
>     > > Robin
>     > >
>     > > _____________________________
>     > >
>     > > >
>     > > > On 18 September 2016 at 05:30 Robin Hamilton
>     > > > <robin.hamilton3 at VIRGINMEDIA.COM> wrote:
>     > > >
>     > > >
>     > > > There's this, for a complete text:
>     > > >
>     > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__
>     > archive.org_stream_remarkablestoryo00bostiala-
>     > 23page_n0_mode_2up&d=CwICaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=
>     > sRkhHMQo6W5Ird1lkQFqb23bCfSHAR2XjUSUG53db5M&m=
>     > ZeZFnPBjToq6EJOV76xtJTSEU19N4CbA9hE-8KQr-hE&s=_8paVknT-
>     > IfJo4L_WkITmmzYVozR_xucXTc2rpvjvYo&e=
>     > > >
>     > > > It doesn't show up on an obvious google (or internal Internet
>     > Archive)
>     > > > search,
>     > > > as John Greene Chandler's name has been removed in the course of
>     > > > (various?)
>     > > > reprinting(s), but you can get to it via the title.
>     > > >
>     > > > Not the original 1840 edition, where the illustrations are in
>     > colour,
>     > > > but
>     > > > as far
>     > > > as I can make out, otherwise identical.
>     > > >
>     > > > I'm not absolutely sure, as I've never managed to get my eyes near
>     > a
>     > > > proper
>     > > > first edition to check it against, but probably good enough for
>     > > > government
>     > > > work.
>     > > >
>     > > > (Thinking about it, I'm not even absolutely sure that the
>     > illustrations
>     > > > originally *were* in colour. I've seen images like that, but they
>     > may
>     > > > have
>     > > > been
>     > > > coloured after the fact.)
>     > > >
>     > > > Actually, comparing the text from the link above, with the images
>     > Garson
>     > > > links
>     > > > to below, they seem (a) to be, with the exception that Chandler's
>     > name
>     > > > is
>     > > > obliterated from the cover of the reprint, identical, and (b) to my
>     > > > untrained
>     > > > eye, the colours in the americanantiquarian images look as if they
>     > were
>     > > > hand-painted onto/into an originally penny-plain text.
>     > > >
>     > > > Which is what would more likely be found at a country fair, which
>     > was
>     > > > where
>     > > > Chandler sold it first.
>     > > >
>     > > > Robin
>     > > >
>     > > > (Who unlike Garson, managed to totally misremember the date. With
>     > the
>     > > > correct
>     > > > date of 1840, Chandler beats the first printing of the Scottish
>     > version
>     > > > by
>     > > > two
>     > > > years, and takes the crown. More, possibly, if the longer
>     > [abominably
>     > > > prolix]
>     > > > MS version which lies behind the printed text was written
>     > substantially
>     > > > earlier.)
>     > > >
>     > > > Incidentally, there's a raft of versions, including the 1849
>     > > > Halliwell-Phillipps
>     > > > one, here:
>     > > >
>     > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.
>     > pitt.edu_-7Edash_type2033.html-23chambers1841&d=CwICaQ&
>     > c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=sRkhHMQo6W5Ird1lkQFqb23bCfSHAR2XjUSUG53db5M&m=
>     > ZeZFnPBjToq6EJOV76xtJTSEU19N4CbA9hE-8KQr-hE&s=e8yA-
>     > qifbY4ROK1RmKzb7_R3FHgTy2-8l0C7xQuS-5w&e=
>     > > >
>     > > > The Scottish version should [but doesn't] carry a health-warning.
>     > It's,
>     > > > to
>     > > > put
>     > > > it mildly, "translated" into English. On the whole, I really like
>     > > > Ashliman's
>     > > > site, both here and beyond the issue at hand, but in that instance
>     > ...
>     > > > words
>     > > > fail me. :-(
>     > > >
>     > > > R.
>     > > >
>     > > > >
>     > > > > On 18 September 2016 at 04:14 ADSGarson O'Toole
>     > > > > <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>     > > > >
>     > > > >
>     > > > > Back in 2010 I mentioned that "Google Books contains a document
>     > titled
>     > > > > 'Remarkable Story of Chicken Little' by John Greene Chandler
>     > dated
>     > > > > 1840 but it cannot be examined because there is 'No preview
>     > > > > available'."
>     > > > >
>     > > > > Robin just sent me (off-list) some additional bibliographical
>     > data
>     > > > > about this 1840 edition.
>     > > > >
>     > > > > Now, I see that American Antiquarian Society based in Worcester,
>     > > > > Massachusetts has an "extremely rare first edition" from 1840,
>     > and
>     > > > > they have posted scans of a few pages.
>     > > > >
>     > > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.
>     > americanantiquarian.org_Exhibitions_View_7_fig7-5F7.htm&d=CwICaQ&c=-
>     > dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=sRkhHMQo6W5Ird1lkQFqb23bCfSHAR2XjUSUG53db5M&m=
>     > ZeZFnPBjToq6EJOV76xtJTSEU19N4CbA9hE-8KQr-hE&s=XBgZExdSQO-
>     > CcjNdGOCSi3I0ZdznrnHACEhTEae32Nc&e=
>     > > > >
>     > > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.
>     > americanantiquarian.org_Exhibitions_Inpursuit_case8_
>     > case8-5F11.htm&d=CwICaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=
>     > sRkhHMQo6W5Ird1lkQFqb23bCfSHAR2XjUSUG53db5M&m=
>     > ZeZFnPBjToq6EJOV76xtJTSEU19N4CbA9hE-8KQr-hE&s=eLm_
>     > xRj5RmQLFdIQQ9CfqHVWwEnm8_kR4-d6mbpq9HQ&e=
>     > > > >
>     > > > > There is a downloadable PDF at the second link that contains a
>     > few
>     > > > > pages. Here is the story text on the pages. Please double-check
>     > for
>     > > > > errors. The main plot event: A leaf fell on the tail of Chicken
>     > > > > Little.
>     > > > >
>     > > > > [Begin text of page 1]
>     > > > > Did you ever hear of Chicken Little, how she disturbed a whole
>     > > > > neighborhood by her foolish alarm?
>     > > > > [End text]
>     > > > >
>     > > > > [Begin text of page 2]
>     > > > > Well, Chicken Little was running about in a gentleman's garden,
>     > where
>     > > > > she had no business to be: she ran under a rose-bush, and a leaf
>     > fell
>     > > > > on her tail; so she was dreadfully frightened, and ran away to
>     > Hen
>     > > > > Pen.
>     > > > > [End excerpt]
>     > > > >
>     > > > > Page 3 and subsequent pages are not displayed on the website of
>     > the
>     > > > > American Antiquarian Society. The text below is from a later
>     > section
>     > > > > of the story. It contains the key phrase "the sky is falling".
>     > This
>     > > > > text was displayed in the back cover, I think.
>     > > > >
>     > > > > [Begin text (located on back cover, I think)]
>     > > > > "O Duck Luck!" says Hen Pen, "the sky is falling." "How do you
>     > know
>     > > > > it?" says Duck Luck. "Chicken Little told me." "Chicken Little,
>     > how do
>     > > > > you know it?" "O, I saw it with my eyes, I heard it with my
>     > ears, and
>     > > > > part of it fell on my tail. O, come, let us run!"
>     > > > > [End text]
>     > > > >
>     > > > > Garson
>     > > > >
>     > > > >
>     > > > >
>     > > >
>     > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
>     > > > The American Dialect Society -
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>     > sRkhHMQo6W5Ird1lkQFqb23bCfSHAR2XjUSUG53db5M&m=
>     > ZeZFnPBjToq6EJOV76xtJTSEU19N4CbA9hE-8KQr-hE&s=FtZ56OeK45vi_t-ZAqegYSs2_C_
>     > VPDJSE46hU05RBYU&e=
>     > > >
>     > >
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>     > americandialect.org&d=CwICaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=
>     > sRkhHMQo6W5Ird1lkQFqb23bCfSHAR2XjUSUG53db5M&m=
>     > ZeZFnPBjToq6EJOV76xtJTSEU19N4CbA9hE-8KQr-hE&s=FtZ56OeK45vi_t-ZAqegYSs2_C_
>     > VPDJSE46hU05RBYU&e=
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