[Ads-l] Japanese (?) proverb

[Barretts Mail]

The snipped quote can be found at https://bit.ly/2wjaAck <https://bit.ly/2wjaAck>. 

A similar version can be found at https://exploringyourmind.com/10-fantastic-japanese-proverbs/ <https://exploringyourmind.com/10-fantastic-japanese-proverbs/>
Victory belongs to those who wait half an hour longer than their opponent.

Also https://brightside.me/article/35-pieces-of-profound-wisdom-from-japan-37805/ <https://brightside.me/article/35-pieces-of-profound-wisdom-from-japan-37805/>
He who endures for just half an hour longer than his opponent can achieve victory.

French Googling also yields a small number of claims:

https://www.mon-poeme.fr/pensees-dictons-japonais/ <https://www.mon-poeme.fr/pensees-dictons-japonais/>
La victoire est à qui tient un quart d'heure de plus. 
Proverbe japonais ; Les proverbes japonais contemporains (1990)
(My translation: Victory is to the one who holds out a quarter of an hour longer)

http://narose.free.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?id=552 <http://narose.free.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?id=552>
La victoire appartient à celui qui sait souffrir un quart d'heure de plus que l’autre
(includes a link to an empty wiki page)
(Google Translate: The victory belongs to the one who knows to suffer a quarter of an hour more than the other)

https://sympa-sympa.com/inspiration-conseils/proverbes-de-la-sagesse-japonaise-755/ <https://sympa-sympa.com/inspiration-conseils/proverbes-de-la-sagesse-japonaise-755/>
La victoire est pour celui qui tient une heure de plus que son rival.
(Google Translate: The victory is for the one who is one hour longer than his rival.)

AFAIK, Japanese doesn’t have a word for “a quarter of an hour,” so the first translation seems dubious, and even “half an hour” or “an hour” sounds unlikely as a choice of word for a proverb. If such a proverb exists, I suspect something like “longer” is used. 

I looked for a corresponding Japanese proverb and didn’t come up with anything that closely matched. On a page of sayings by Tokugawa Ieyasu (http://iyashitour.com/archives/20274 <http://iyashitour.com/archives/20274>), I did find:

戦いでは強い者が勝つ。辛抱の強い者が。
(My translation: In battle, the strong one wins. The one strong in perseverance/endurance/patience.)

Benjamin Barrett
Formerly of Seattle, WA

> On 26 Aug 2018, at 23:01, ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> 
> JL's excerpt may be slightly garbled. The book by French author Henry
> de Montherlant appears to refer to "another quarter of an hour".
> 
> Year: 1962
> Book: Dream
> Author: Henry de Montherlant
> Publisher: Weidenfeld and Nicolson,
> Quote Page 85
> Database: Google Snippet View; data may be inaccurate; must be
> verified with hardcopy or scans
> 
> [Begin extracted text]
> Remembering the Japanese proverb: 'Victory belongs to him who can hold
> out another quarter of an hour,' she modified it thus: 'Victory
> belongs to him who can bear to be insulted for another quarter of an
> hour.'
> [End extracted text]
> 
> A French military manual translated into English in 1917 also refers
> to a "quarter of an hour longer". The adage below about "complete
> victory" is enclosed in quotation marks; hence, it probably was
> already in circulation. I conjecture that this remark about 15 minutes
> was derived from the family of sayings about bravery and "two/five
> minutes".
> 
> Year: 1917
> Title: Manual of the Chief of Platoon of Infantry
> Comment: This translation of the main portion of the French "Manuel du
> Chef de Section d'infanterie", Edition of January 1917, is published
> for the information of all concerned
> Publisher: Headquarters American Expeditionary Forces
> Quote Page 11
> Database: HathiTrust
> 
> https://hdl.handle.net/2027/uiug.30112088069809
> https://hdl.handle.net/2027/uiug.30112088069809?urlappend=%3Bseq=17
> 
> [Begin excerpt – check for typos]
> In dark hours, when discouragement appears, officers and
> non-commissioned officers act in unity in order to drive it from the
> company: they remind all that whatever happens, one must never
> despair, that there is no good reason why the enemy should not be
> quite as much reduced and depressed as anybody else, that in war,
> fortune has most sudden returns for those who do not give up and that
> a "complete victory belongs to him who can suffer one quarter of an
> hour longer than the other".
> [End excerpt]
> 
> Garson
> 
> On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 12:48 AM Mark Mandel <mark.a.mandel at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I should hope not! What kind of structure is "another of an hour"?
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> 
>> On Sun, Aug 26, 2018, 9:00 PM Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> From Peter Quennell's 1962 translation of Henry de Montherlant's 1922
>>> novel, _The Dream_ (p.85):
>>> 
>>> "Remembering the Japanese proverb: 'Victory belongs to him who can hold
>>> out another of an hour.'"
>>> 
>>> The sentiment sounds vaguely familiar, but I don't see this formulation on
>>> the Net.
>>> 
>>> JL
>>> 


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