[Ads-l] Japanese (?) proverb

Jonathan Lighter wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM
Mon Aug 27 09:52:27 EDT 2018


Thanks, Garson.

Of course it should be "quarter of an hour."  Apologies.

JL



On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 2:05 AM Barretts Mail <mail.barretts at gmail.com>
wrote:

> The snipped quote can be found at https://bit.ly/2wjaAck <
> https://bit.ly/2wjaAck>.
>
> A similar version can be found at
> https://exploringyourmind.com/10-fantastic-japanese-proverbs/ <
> https://exploringyourmind.com/10-fantastic-japanese-proverbs/>
> Victory belongs to those who wait half an hour longer than their opponent.
>
> Also
> https://brightside.me/article/35-pieces-of-profound-wisdom-from-japan-37805/
> <
> https://brightside.me/article/35-pieces-of-profound-wisdom-from-japan-37805/
> >
> He who endures for just half an hour longer than his opponent can achieve
> victory.
>
> French Googling also yields a small number of claims:
>
> https://www.mon-poeme.fr/pensees-dictons-japonais/ <
> https://www.mon-poeme.fr/pensees-dictons-japonais/>
> La victoire est à qui tient un quart d'heure de plus.
> Proverbe japonais ; Les proverbes japonais contemporains (1990)
> (My translation: Victory is to the one who holds out a quarter of an hour
> longer)
>
> http://narose.free.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?id=552 <
> http://narose.free.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?id=552>
> La victoire appartient à celui qui sait souffrir un quart d'heure de plus
> que l’autre
> (includes a link to an empty wiki page)
> (Google Translate: The victory belongs to the one who knows to suffer a
> quarter of an hour more than the other)
>
>
> https://sympa-sympa.com/inspiration-conseils/proverbes-de-la-sagesse-japonaise-755/
> <
> https://sympa-sympa.com/inspiration-conseils/proverbes-de-la-sagesse-japonaise-755/
> >
> La victoire est pour celui qui tient une heure de plus que son rival.
> (Google Translate: The victory is for the one who is one hour longer than
> his rival.)
>
> AFAIK, Japanese doesn’t have a word for “a quarter of an hour,” so the
> first translation seems dubious, and even “half an hour” or “an hour”
> sounds unlikely as a choice of word for a proverb. If such a proverb
> exists, I suspect something like “longer” is used.
>
> I looked for a corresponding Japanese proverb and didn’t come up with
> anything that closely matched. On a page of sayings by Tokugawa Ieyasu (
> http://iyashitour.com/archives/20274 <http://iyashitour.com/archives/20274>),
> I did find:
>
> 戦いでは強い者が勝つ。辛抱の強い者が。
> (My translation: In battle, the strong one wins. The one strong in
> perseverance/endurance/patience.)
>
> Benjamin Barrett
> Formerly of Seattle, WA
>
> > On 26 Aug 2018, at 23:01, ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
> wrote:
> >
> > JL's excerpt may be slightly garbled. The book by French author Henry
> > de Montherlant appears to refer to "another quarter of an hour".
> >
> > Year: 1962
> > Book: Dream
> > Author: Henry de Montherlant
> > Publisher: Weidenfeld and Nicolson,
> > Quote Page 85
> > Database: Google Snippet View; data may be inaccurate; must be
> > verified with hardcopy or scans
> >
> > [Begin extracted text]
> > Remembering the Japanese proverb: 'Victory belongs to him who can hold
> > out another quarter of an hour,' she modified it thus: 'Victory
> > belongs to him who can bear to be insulted for another quarter of an
> > hour.'
> > [End extracted text]
> >
> > A French military manual translated into English in 1917 also refers
> > to a "quarter of an hour longer". The adage below about "complete
> > victory" is enclosed in quotation marks; hence, it probably was
> > already in circulation. I conjecture that this remark about 15 minutes
> > was derived from the family of sayings about bravery and "two/five
> > minutes".
> >
> > Year: 1917
> > Title: Manual of the Chief of Platoon of Infantry
> > Comment: This translation of the main portion of the French "Manuel du
> > Chef de Section d'infanterie", Edition of January 1917, is published
> > for the information of all concerned
> > Publisher: Headquarters American Expeditionary Forces
> > Quote Page 11
> > Database: HathiTrust
> >
> > https://hdl.handle.net/2027/uiug.30112088069809
> > https://hdl.handle.net/2027/uiug.30112088069809?urlappend=%3Bseq=17
> >
> > [Begin excerpt – check for typos]
> > In dark hours, when discouragement appears, officers and
> > non-commissioned officers act in unity in order to drive it from the
> > company: they remind all that whatever happens, one must never
> > despair, that there is no good reason why the enemy should not be
> > quite as much reduced and depressed as anybody else, that in war,
> > fortune has most sudden returns for those who do not give up and that
> > a "complete victory belongs to him who can suffer one quarter of an
> > hour longer than the other".
> > [End excerpt]
> >
> > Garson
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 12:48 AM Mark Mandel <mark.a.mandel at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I should hope not! What kind of structure is "another of an hour"?
> >>
> >> Mark
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sun, Aug 26, 2018, 9:00 PM Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> From Peter Quennell's 1962 translation of Henry de Montherlant's 1922
> >>> novel, _The Dream_ (p.85):
> >>>
> >>> "Remembering the Japanese proverb: 'Victory belongs to him who can hold
> >>> out another of an hour.'"
> >>>
> >>> The sentiment sounds vaguely familiar, but I don't see this
> formulation on
> >>> the Net.
> >>>
> >>> JL
> >>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>


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