ARABIC-L: LING: Root of 'nasta:iinu' responses

[Dilworth B. Parkinson]

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Arabic-L: Thu 07 Jan 1999
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-------------------------Directory-------------------------------------

1) Subject: @ayn waaw noon
2) Subject: 'ala wazn istaf'ala
3) Subject: root "3-w-n"
4) Subject: transcription
5) Subject: root /<wn/
6) Subject: ('ayn waaw nuun)
7) Subject: not ghayn as initial cosonnant

-------------------------Messages--------------------------------------
1)
Date: 07 Jan 1999
From: Andrew Freeman <andyf at umich.edu>
Subject: @ayn waaw noon

Hi,

  The ':' symbol can only be representing an '@ayn' (voiced pharyngeal
approximate).  This is a form ten, the root is @ayn waaw noon.  My
paper-bound 4th edition Hans Wehr lists this root starting at the bottom
of page 771.  The form 10 'ista at aana, yasta at iinu, 'ista at aana(tun) can be
found on page 772.  According to Wehr : to ask for (s.o.'s; bi or hu) help
(against; @alaa).

  Other useful lexical items from this root are forms III and VI:
III = @aawana = he helped
VI = ta at aawanuu = they cooperated

So =
'iiyaaka na:budu wa 'iiyaaka nasta:iinu'
 can only be translated
'you we worship and you we ask for help'

Andrew Freeman
Ph.D. student UofM, Ann Arbor, Michigan

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2)
Date: 07 Jan 1999
From: Jackie Murgida <jmurg at star.net>
Subject: 'ala wazn istaf'ala

Grover, the system that your dictionaries use to categorize the verbs [Forms
I-XV] is not what native speakers of Arabic use. One of the best things I
ever learned in Arabic class was the Arabic system, which uses the letters
faa', 'ayn, and laam for the first, middle, and last letters of the root.
So, Form I = fa'ala/fa'ila, etc.; Form II = fa''ala, Form III is faa'ala,
and so on.  If you tell a native speaker that a verb is 'ala wazn istaf'ala,
for instance, he'll know what you're talking about [according to the pattern
of istaf'ala].

Maybe some of our colleagues could provide the verb charts using the f'l
system for you. It makes a lot more sense if you see it all on one page in
Arabic. Usually it has perfect, imperfect, passives [all in 3ms],
participles, and the maSdar [verbal noun]. Once you see the whole thing for
sound verbs and then learn what happens with weak verbs [like ista'aana] you
realize that it's a beautifully regular system and you see how everything
relates. At least, that's the way I felt when I was learning Arabic.

An expensive dictionary, but useful for people who haven't yet mastered the
Western system, is the Mawrid. Words are listed by *stem*, rather than root,
so nasta'iinu, stem 'ista'aana would be under the first letter, alif, rather
than the first letter of the root, 'ayn. It's not perfect, but it can be a
good alternative when you're stuck *if* you can determine the 3ms form of a
verb and the singular of a plural noun -- or make good guesses.  It's much
easier for your students to deal with than roots, I think.

Good luck!

Jackie

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3)
Date: 07 Jan 1999
From: Robert Langer <rlanger at ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
Subject: root "3-w-n"

"Nasta3înu" is X ("istaf3ala") of the root "3-w-n" (no verbal I ("fa3ala")
according to Wehr for this root, only the noun "3awn - engl. help").
X ("istaf3ala") meaning - amoung other meanings - "to beg for something" in
this case means "to beg for help".
 
Best wishes for 1999 and thanks to all replying to my "cake" query.
 
Robert Langer, Tutor
Seminar für Sprachen und Kulturen des Vorderen Orients: Islamwissenschaft
Ruprecht-Karls-Universität Heidelberg
Sandgasse 7
D-69117 Heidelberg, Neckar
E-mail: rlanger at ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de


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4)
Date: 07 Jan 1999
From: aissati <aissati at gironet.nl>
Subject: transcription

I think you got the wrong transcription for ':' This should be a 'ayn
(transcribed as epsilon sometimes) and not a ghayn (transcribed as a
gamma). I think the root of the verb in question is 'awan "help, aid'
and the derived form means then 'get the help of' or 'ask for the help
of'
sincerely,
Abderrahman El Aissati
Tilburg University

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5)
Date: 07 Jan 1999
From: may2 at cornell.edu
Subject: root /<wn/

nasta<iin is a Form X verb based on  the root /<wn/. It is in the
imperfect tense; its perfect is ista<aan.  It should be easy to look it
up in Wehr's dictionary.

Munther Younes

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6)
Date: 07 Jan 1999
From: Haidar Moukdad <moukdad at GSLIS.Lan.McGill.CA>
Subject: ('ayn waaw nuun)


 < nasta:iinu

     This word is from the tenth form of 'aana; the root is 'wn
('ayn waaw nuun).




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7)
Date: 07 Jan 1999
From: "Dr Salah D. Hammoud, 333-4580" <HammoudSD.DFF.USAFA at usafa.af.mil>
Subject: not ghayn as initial cosonnant

The root for nasta:iinu is :awana with 'ayn not ghayn as initial cosonnant
(to help, support, assist). See p. 659 in the Wehr-Cowan 1976 edition.

Salah
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End of Arabic-L: 07 Jan 1999