Arabic-L:LING:Understanding Bin Laden text

[Dilworth B. Parkinson]

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Arabic-L: Mon 15 Oct 2001
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-------------------------Directory-------------------------------------

1) Subject: Understanding Bin Laden text
2) Subject: Understanding Bin Laden text
3) Subject: Understanding Bin Laden text
4) Subject: Understanding Bin Laden text
5) Subject: Understanding Bin Laden text

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1)
Date:  15 Oct 2001
From: Ola Moshref <omoshref at aucegypt.edu>
Subject: Understanding Bin Laden text

1. mujanzar: from janziir (Persian) = a chain ('il-munjid dictionary)
                                                     in MSA it means a large
steel chain
what we understand from mujanzaraat is strong bulky equipment of war or
destrruction.

2. taCiith = to spoil  / Catha fii maali-h = wasted his money ('il-munjid)
we usually use it in collocotion with fasaad to mean spread evil.

3. Cala hadhihi il-fi'a allati xarajat tafirru bi-diini-ha ila alla
he said tafirru meaninig to flee
when someone leaves one's country, that is oppresive, seeking God's refuge,
one is fleeing away to God in hope that God would safeguard one's religion
and beliefs from being corrupted.

Ola

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2)
Date:  15 Oct 2001
From: Chris Holman <veracocha at hotmail.com>
Subject: Understanding Bin Laden text

1. What does "mujanzar" mean?

Answer: Mujanzara is an Armored Vehicle.  

2. How do you translate "taCiith fasaadan". Wehr gives "wreak havoc,
lay waste" But the Yahoo (AP?) translation is "infest"
The relevant passage is: daxala dabbaabaat wa mujanzaraat
isra'iiliiya l-taCiith fii 'arD filisTiin fasaadan.

Answer: I'm not sure what you are representing with the C in taCiith
but it could be ta'sees which would mean
establishing/instituting/forming......fasaadan is talking about
corruption/immorality/vainness/etc.  So in summary this phrase could
mean that the Israeli tanks and armored vehicles entered, for the
establishment/making/creating a corrupt/perverted/unsound Palestinian
Land.  (Due to their presence...much like the U.S. presence in
Saudi...at least to Bin Laden.)  

3. My text has the phrase "Calaa hadhihi al-fi'a alatii xarajat

taqarru bi-diinihaa (?bi-dainihaa) ilaa allah"

The last part of this phrase is obscure to me, but I think it says
"Against this group which has gone out committed in its religion to
God." (or possibly to settle their debt to God?)

Answer: I think you are right.  However, Diin is a more correct
transliteration because dain, to me, when said would mean Debt.
Dain/Dayoon.  Whereas Diin or Deen is religion.  deen/adeean.  Fia is
more like organization than group but the meaning is still there.

I haven't looked at the Arabic text yet but this is my take going off
of your transliteration.  Hope it helps a bit.

Chris Holman

<mailto:Chrish at oregon.uoregon.edu>Chrish at oregon.uoregon.edu

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3)
Date:  15 Oct 2001
From: Akram Khabibullaev <athabib at ias.edu>
Subject: Understanding Bin Laden text

Dear colleague,

"mujanzara" means caterpillar vehicle, and "'aatha (ya'iith, ta'iith)
fasaadan" - to sow evil. Baranov's dictionary gives these meanings.

Best wishes,
Akram Khabibullaev

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4)
Date:  15 Oct 2001
From: Waleed Al-Amri <waleed at talk21.com>
Subject: Understanding Bin Laden text

in order to understand the Bin Laden discourse and how it came to be
translated as such one has got to keep in mind a number of things:

1- that bin laden's discourse combines the political tirade and, to a much
greater degree, the religious sermon, to address the mind and stir emotions,
respectively. Such a combination of generic elements is entirely appropriate
in socio-textual practice of language cultures such as militant religious
Arabic. It has been used by intellectual sheikhs in Saudi Arabia in their
lectures (sermons) since the late 80s or what is known as Sahwa (lit.
awakening). This type of discourse is characterised by lexical repetition,
parallelism, intertextual references, sustained metaphors and
over-lexicalisation which is a means of foregrounding by drawing attention
to prominent lexical choices that relay a discourse and create a text world
in which external enemies are identified on both political and moral
grounds.

2- When such a text is given to a translator he/she has to make a number of
decisions based on linguistic necessities, at the level of lexical selection
(collocation imagery and so on), and political constraints (pressures). Both
will be informed by the skopos (purpose) that the initiator (the one who
gives the task) puts forward. There are broadly two techniques for the
translation of such a text: domestication, i.e. getting rid of the foreign
element, or more likely  foriegnization, keeping the form and the flavour of
the original, which in a way works to highlight the "alienness" of the
original and thus supporting the fear of the unknown that some people might
have: whatever the translator is told to do my guess is the feel of Bin
Laden's stamen is very different between the Arabic original and its English
translation (s). It also has to be said that such a translation is
characterised by hetro-glossia, presenting many voices. The translator's
draft will be subjected to mediation by, say, the editor to make it serve
certain purposes. It is a media war as much as any other form of war!

3- As for 'dabbaabaat wa mujanzaraat' my guess is that they both mean one
and the same thing and that is only a tautology necessiated by the occasion
and/or how people are used to them both coming together in Arabic just like
"aiding and abetting", "null and void", "ways and means". Mujanzaraat comes
from Janzeer which is the metal chain that tanks use instead of tyres.

4- "Calaa hadhihi al-fi'a alatii xarajat taqarru bi-diinihaa (?bi-dainihaa)
ilaa allah", it is interesting how Yahoo superimpose a reading over this
sentence through a clearly mediated translation. The last part is confusing
because 'taqarru' should have been 'tafirru', i.e. flees with its religion
to God from temptations and pressures just like the young people of the cave
in the Quran. The group that Bin Laden talks about think that if they stay
in their "corrupt" "unislamic" societies they will be swayed away from their
beliefs by the temptations of life or the conniving and coercion of their
governments.

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5)
Date:  15 Oct 2001
From: ahmed abboud <ahmedabboud at hotmail.com>
Subject: Understanding Bin Laden text

Good Day Robert R, Ratcliffe!
You know very well that when it comes to the translation of religious
quotations one has to consult a good tafsiir-book (al-jalaalayn ,for
example).Then once the meaning is clear there'll be no problem in
translating the texts,because we're talking about a high-styled
language,especially when it comes to arabic.Besides,personal opinions
in this respect can be very misleading.Good luck.
Best regards,
Ahmed
Sweden
Zenitgatan 8,
415 21 Gothenburg

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End of Arabic-L:  15 Oct 2001