Arabic-L:LING:Nominative Greeting responses

[Dilworth Parkinson]

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Arabic-L: Fri 21 Feb 2003
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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1) Subject:Nominative Greeting response
2) Subject:Nominative Greeting further question
3) Subject:Nominative Greeting response
4) Subject:Nominative Greeting response
5) Subject:Nominative Greeting response

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1)
Date: 21 Feb 2003
From: Haidar Moukdad <haidar.moukdad at mail.mcgill.ca>
Subject: Nominative Greeting response

SabaaHu/masaa'u al-khayr (the nominitive form) makes more sense. Since
the
existence of a verb is not implied, the  greeting is treated as a noun
phrase. In many "colloquial" dialects, the frequency and correctness  of
using accusative or nominative forms are irrelevant, since a "sukuun" is
used at the end of SabaaH/masaa'.

Haidar Moukdad
Dalhousie University

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2)
Date: 21 Feb 2003
From: Mary <marynach at yahoo.com>
Subject: Nominative Greeting response

Also, which one is more correct, and why (Sabaahu-l-khayr or
Sabaaha-l-khayr, and same for masaa'a-l-khayr vs. masaa'u-l-khayr)?
Mary Nachtrieb

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3)
Date: 21 Feb 2003
From: Waheed Samy <wasamy at umich.edu>
Subject: Nominative Greeting response

You can do anything you please in fusha!

I suppose masaa'u l-khayri is more a declaration than a greeting, ya
Muhammadu: ('innahu masaa'u l-khayri).

Waheedun.

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4)
Date: 21 Feb 2003
From: M Alhamad <ahmmm at essex.ac.uk>
Subject: Nominative Greeting response

Hello all,

To answer Muhammad's question about the case of "sabaH/masa' al-khayr":

I think you can use both forms: nominative and accusative. It is the
same
when we use most of the adverbs of time like: yawm, shahr, sanah = day,
month, year...etc.
For example: if you ask: "when are you coming to visit me?" the answer
would
be: "yawm-a al-jumcah" = "Friday Day-Acc" with accusative form.
However, if
you ask: "which is the best day in the week?", the answer would be:
"yawm-u
al-jumcah" = "Friday Day-Nom" with nominative form.
The same is applied to "sabaHa/ sabaHu al-khayr". If it is considered
as an
adverb of time, it would be used in the accusative form. However, if it
is
considered as a part of a nominal sentence (verbless sentence), it
would be
used in the nominative form (as if it means: "sabaH-u al-khayr-i
calayk" as
we say in English: "Good morning to you".

I personally prefer to use it in the nominative form "sabaHu". I think
it is
more likely to be part of a nominal sentence than to be an adverb of
time
(although it is common to be used in this form).

I hope this helps to answer your question.

Mohammad Alhamad
University of Essex
UK

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5)
Date: 21 Feb 2003
From: Dil Parkinson <dil at byu.edu
Subject: Nominative Greeting response

I can't resist adding my two bits.  Technically I think you would have
to say that the accusative form is the only correct one when the phrase
is used in a greeting:  all greetings are considered to be adverbs,
compare marHaban, 'ahlan, etc.  However, I find it interesting that
there seems to be a drift in the direction of nominative.  When I was
doing research on oral vowelling perfomance I found a similar
phenomenon in many different settings.  Here is my (admittedly totally
ad hoc) explanation:  you never really have to put the ending vowels
on, even if your performance is otherwise 'fusha' in every way.  You
choose to put them on to mark your performance in a particular way.  It
is a kind of claim for elegance, educatedness, high-fallutin'-ness, or
whatever you want to call it.  If accuracy is not a concern, the 'u'
vowel is by far the best to fill this marking function.  An 'i' vowel
particularly, but also an 'a' can be heard not as an attempt at
vowelling but simply as a kind of slur or helping vowel.  But 'u' is
pretty unmistakable.  It says: 'this is a vowelled performance'
bringing along with it whatever social baggage that claim carries with
it.  I once participated in a debate, organized by the Al-Akhbar
newspaper in Cairo, in which my colleague, a professor from Cairo
University, managed to get through an approximately 15 minute monologue
with every word vowelled with 'u' regardless of its actual case.  It
was breathtaking, and to my mind quite revealing of the function of
vowels in oral performances.
Dil
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End of Arabic-L:  21 Feb 2003