Arabic-L:PEDA:Colloquial First

[Dilworth Parkinson]

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Arabic-L: Fri 06 Jul 2007
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dilworth_parkinson at byu.edu>
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-------------------------Directory------------------------------------

1) Subject:Colloquial First
2) Subject:Colloquial First
3) Subject:Colloquial First

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1)
Date: 06 Jul 2007
From:"Jeremy Palmer" <jeremy.palmer at gmail.com>
Subject:Colloquial First

I congratulate Western Michigan for basing its forthcoming renovation  
of their
Arabic program on empirical research. Those of you who disagree with  
such an
approach ought to consider basing, and expressing, your statements on
research. I will do the same.

Thank you,

Jeremy Palmer

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2)
Date: 06 Jul 2007
From:"Antonio Giménez <huesteantigua at yahoo.es>
Subject:Colloquial First

I apologize for coming so late into the discussion. After reading the
comments so far,  I think some of us may have lost sight of the
'experimental side' of Mustafa’s initiative at Western Michigan
University, which, while not being absolutely novel (Qafisheh's pilot
study has been mentioned) it is nevertheless rather uncommon and will
bring us a great opportunity to put our assumptions (whatever they might
be) to test.

As non-native adult learners, many of us know the experience of going
from Fusha to colloquial Arabic. Some say it is dead easy, some say it
is hard, but actually few of us have the experience of going the other
way round (as non-native adult learners, I must insist). We can
pontificate all we want about the potential risks and dangers of
teaching colloquial first, but how many of us know someone who has been
taught this way? Furthermore, how could we reach any conclusion out of
individual cases? Unless a whole curriculum  is set to work in this new
direction, we cannot expect to have any reliable evidence either in
favor or against the colloquial-first approach. As a matter of fact,
many experiments like this will be needed to equate (in terms of quality
and amount of researchable experience) what we know about the
long-standing Fusha-only and the more recent Fusha-first approaches —the
last of which more than often sounds like a "colloquial? Sure, one of
these days" approach.

This said, I wonder who really are spinning in their graves: Sibawayh
and Ibn Jinni or some 19th- and 20th-century Orientalist scholars?
("Bald heads forgetful of their sins, / Old, learned, respectable bald
heads", I would dare to add, quoting Yeats.)

Traditional curricula have just brought about what I call 'deaf-mute'
graduates in Arabic: as literate as their dictionaries and grammar books
allow them to be, i.e., not literate on their own but rather dependent
on this sort of 'learning prosthesis', and nearly unable to communicate
in any way (not to mention the many forever Arabic-impaired). Some may
disagree, but this is the case here in Spain and I guess it is the same
in the States. And please, do not be misled by those ubiquitous notable
exceptions who have become fully conversant with spoken Arabic "on the
way": we are not talking about such-and-such an individual, but about
programs, curricula and institutions that should assure students the
best available instruction.

Like Dina El Zarka, I cannot agree more with Mustafa and David Wilmsen,
just as I get a mixed feeling of relief and sorrow: relief that ideas
such as theirs start to make their way into the Arabic curriculum, but
sorrow in seeing that some of us, teachers, keep on being a big part of
the problem, even bigger than diglossia; for, much as I may agree with
Mustafa, I am afraid that we cannot put ideologies aside so easily (in
case we actually, firmly ever want to). Perhaps we should move from
language to people.  It is all useless to insist on Arabic diglossia:
some people, teachers and students alike are just not interested in
spoken Arabic. Either they have "a spoken Arabic of their own" or simply
have none, which is quite a respectable decision, all the more if one is
fully aware of its shortcomings.

The thing is, should academic institutions take sides in this matter on
the sole basis of what has been traditionally done or what some people
think is best? Of course not. We should give the colloquial-first
approach a try, then see. At the very worst, Mustafa's students will
remain functionally illiterate after one entire year —but never
completely so, as Mike Schub pretends, since colloquial is intended to
be taught in Arabic script from the very first semester. Furthermore,
should they remain functionally illiterate, they would be as
functionally illiterate as many traditionally-instructed students if you
take their Hans Wehr dictionaries away!

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3)
Date: 06 Jul 2007
From:"Kevin Schluter <schlu017 at umn.edu>
Subject:Colloquial First

As a graduate student who has received three FLAS fellowships for  
Arabic, I'd like to comment not on the issue of colloquial first per  
se, but colloquial at all.  I wanted to use my fellowship this summer  
to study a colloquial dialect (particularly Lebanese, Syrian, or  
Iraqi).  That did not happen.  In part, this was due to my FLAS's  
restrictions on locations I could go and number of classroom hours  
required in the program.  Mostly, it was due to the fact that there  
are almost no programs which actually focus on any sort of colloquial  
Arabic.  Of course, an ambitious student can make the best of any  
program and find a way to study colloquial, but it seems that most  
Arabic programs don't just teach MSA first, but teach MSA only.   
Obviously each university may not be equipped to teach any given  
dialect, but most programs can probably manage to teach one dialect.   
Whether it is as distinct course or as an additional or optional  
discussion section, colloquial sometime would be a welcome option by  
many students.

Kevin Schluter
University of Minnesota

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End of Arabic-L:  06 Jul 2007