Arabic-L:LING:Relative Clause-Prepositional Phrase responses

[Dilworth Parkinson]

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Arabic-L: Mon 18 April 2011
Moderator: Dilworth Parkinson <dil at byu.edu>
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1) Subject: Relative Clause-Prepositional Phrase response
2) Subject: Relative Clause-Prepositional Phrase response
3) Subject: Relative Clause-Prepositional Phrase response
4) Subject: Relative Clause-Prepositional Phrase response
5) Subject: Relative Clause-Prepositional Phrase response

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1)
Date: 18 April 2011
From: Becky Molloy <becky at molloys.net>
Subject: Relative Clause-Prepositional Phrase response

Hi,
Yes, both are considered "صفة" clauses, the nouns they describe are an اسم موصوف or simply موصوف . Hope that helps. Best, 
Dr. Rebecca B. Molloy
Arabic Linguistics, Mideast Affairs
& Counter Terrorism Research

2 Faraway Rd
Armonk, NY 10504
rebecca at molloys.net

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2)
Date: 18 April 2011
From: Ebtesam Mohammadi <ebtesam at aucegypt.edu>
Subject: Relative Clause-Prepositional Phrase response

if you go by Arabic linguists, it is the same:
algumal wa Ashbaah algumal ba3d elma3aarif aHwaal wa ba3d alnajiraat sifaat: Sentences and prepositional phrases are considered adverbs after definite nouns and adjectives after indefinite nouns.
it is also clear that min asHaab assultaan is describing the man.
I hope this helps
Best,
Ebtissam

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3)
Date: 18 April 2011
From: <hwa2 at georgetown.edu>
Subject: Relative Clause-Prepositional Phrase response

Dear Zainab
Each sentences you wrote has a clause functioning as  an adjective modifying the indefinite  noun preceding it.  following the rule: " الجمل بعد النكرات صفات "
Huda Al Mufti

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4)
Date: 18 April 2011
From: <rns747 at aol.com>
Subject: Relative Clause-Prepositional Phrase response

Dear Zainab,
I wouldn't consider a prepositional phrase as a clause. The concept of "clause" used in linguistics is compatible with "jumla" or sentence in Arabic grammar. In Arabic a sentence and hence a clause is either a verbal sentence or a nominal sentence (with a subject and predicate).A prepositional phrase, even though it may function as a noun modifier, is not considered a sentence/ clause. So your example has a PP that has a similar function to a relative or adjectival clause but we can not call it so.

I hope this helps.

Best,
Reem Faraj

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4)
Date: 18 April 2011
From: <mcredi at cloud9.net>
Subject: Relative Clause-Prepositional Phrase response

[moderator's note: unfortunately, the Arabic of Mr. Credi's message did not come through.  sorry about that.  dil]

Nowhere in the Arab grammarians study of Arabic grammar is there a  
recognition of the relative clause. The notion of relative clause as  
it is understood in other languages is unknown to the Arab  
grammarians. The technical term itself of "relative clause" does not  
exist in Arabic. The way the Arab grammarians explain this phenomenon  
is as follows: ????? ??? ??????? ???? ???? ??????? ?????. This means  
that a relative clause whose antecedent is indefinite and consequently  
does not have a relative pronoun is considered a ??? and the  
grammarians call it ???? ?????; a relative clause whose antecedent is  
definite and consequently has a relative pronoun is ??? and the  
grammarians call it ??? ???????.

Medhat Credi

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End of Arabic-L: 18 April 2011
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