[EDLING:206] Re: L2 in US Schools

Kristin Glaudel kglaudel at COMCAST.NET
Fri May 14 21:38:59 UTC 2004


I would like to have my name removed from this list. How do I go about doing that? 


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Maureen T. Matarese 
  To: edling at ccat.sas.upenn.edu 
  Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 4:08 PM
  Subject: [EDLING:205] Re: L2 in US Schools


  Bernard,
  A clarification question: are you saying that it IS easy to persuade multilingual immigrants that monolinguism in English is good, or were you questioning whether it is or isn't?
  Thanks,
  -Maureen

  Bernard Spolsky <spolsb at mail.biu.ac.il> wrote:
    But going in the other directions, it seems quiet quick to persuade the
    children of multilingual immigrants that monolingualism in English is a good
    thing? And universities? How many universities in English speaking
    countries demand that their students have serious foreign language
    proficiency?
    Bernard

    -----Original Message-----
    From: owner-edling at ccat.sas.upenn.edu
    [mailto:owner-edling at ccat.sas.upenn.edu] On Behalf Of Richard Hudson
    Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 1:31 PM
    To: edling at ccat.sas.upenn.edu
    Subject: [EDLING:199] Re: L2 in US Schools


    Dear Bernard,
    I see what you mean. Sure - changing attitudes is a major challenge, and 
    one thing is clear: it takes time. Probably measured in generations rather 
    than years. And another thing: it takes concerted action across the board, 
    not just concentrated in schools. Universi! ties have a major role in this, 
    as the trainers of future teachers.
    Best wishes, Dick

    At 11:15 14/05/2004, you wrote:
    >I was certainly impressed by the activity, but it is a very 
    >bureaucratic public relations type site. I continue to wonder if 
    >anyone has found a way to change public beliefs. Or, obviously, the 
    >belief of teachers that it is worth becoming FL teachers. Our local 
    >director general had a simple answer: surely any primary teacher can 
    >teach all the English that primary children need! Seriously, how might 
    >one go about establishing (or re-establishing) the valuing of 
    >multilingualism in monolingual societies? Bernard
    >
    >-----Original Message-----
    >From: owner-edling at ccat.sas.upenn.edu 
    >[mailto:owner-edling at ccat.sas.upenn.edu] On Behalf Of Richard Hudson
    >Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:01 AM
    >To: edling at ccat.sas.upenn.edu
    >Subject: [EDLING:197] Re: L2 in US Schools
    >
    >
    >Dear Bernard,
    >Thanks. I'm surprised it struck you that way. I don't know about 
    >attracting and persuading since I've not looked at it from that point 
    >of view. You may well be right. The main function is to report 
    >activity, of which as you say there's quite a lot. All I can say is 
    >that FL have much higher profile now than they did a few years ago, and 
    >that there are quite a lot more resources for it and a clearer plan. 
    >The resources for FL are far less than for literacy, and may not be 
    >enough to turn the situation round. The planning is generally good. The 
    >main block is the supply of teachers, which has very little hope of 
    >hitting the target of one FL teacher per primary school by 2010.
    > Best wishes, Dick
    >
    >At 04:04 14/05/2004, you wrote:
    > >Dick
    > >I looked quickly at the site, and was impressed by it verbiage (and 
    > >s! pelling mistakes). There is plenty of activity. But who will it 
    > >attract? Or convince? Bernard
    > >
    > >-----Original Message-----
    > >From: owner-edling at ccat.sas.upenn.edu 
    > >[mailto:owner-edling at ccat.sas.upenn.edu] On Behalf Of Richard Hudson
    > >Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 11:05 PM
    > >To: edling at ccat.sas.upenn.edu
    > >Subject: [EDLING:193] Re: L2 in US Schools
    > >
    > >
    > >Much the same debate has been going on for some time in the UK, 
    > >because of similar problems in our education system. In fact, it's 
    > >very easy to see that the situation has got worse in the last ten 
    > >years - fewer 16-year olds opting for languages in the last two years 
    > >of school, fewer going on to university to study languages (with 
    > >disastrous effects on language depts at university), and (therefore) 
    > >fewer graduates training as language teac! hers, so fewer (and worse) 
    > >language teachers in school, so fewer 16-year olds opting for 
    > >languages .... But the government (whose head, incidentally, can 
    > >speak fluent French) is trying hard to reverse the trend. There's 
    > >quite a lot of information about what they're doing at
    http://www.dfes.gov.uk/languages/.
    > > Incidentally, one interesting fact that's emerged from the 
    > >various inquiries into the problem has been that the Republic of 
    > >Ireland, which (of
    > >course) is also an English-speaking country, does not have the same 
    > >problem. With a tenth of our population, they have the same number of 
    > >school-leavers specialising in languages. (But more recently, I'm 
    > >told, the rot has been setting in, which is disappointing.) So much 
    > >for the argument that our national unconcern about foreign languages 
    > >is the inevitable consequence of! the dominance of English.
    > > Dick Hudson
    > >
    > >
    > >At 19:07 13/05/2004, you wrote:
    > > >Well, although we don't have these expectations in the foreign 
    > > >language classroom--the question is why (as B. Spolsky mentioned as 
    > > >well
    >on the
    > > >listserv). Why is it seemingly unimportant for a country that has so
    > > >many immigrant populations to be fluent in those other languages? 
    > > >Why are Spanish-English dual language programs so stigmatized? Why 
    > > >is multilingualism not seen as an asset in the hiring process (for 
    > > >some it is--but not categorically)? I would like to live to see 
    > > >the day when we have a leader who is educated enough to respond in 
    > > >French and then translate his response for the other reporters. 
    > > >That'll be the day.
    > > >
    > > >At AAAL! , I was struck by one presentation in particular that began 
    > > >in the speaker's mother tongue. She mentioned how important it was 
    > > >to align herself with her country and culture by beginning this 
    > > >way. Although she had to present her paper in English--it was 
    > > >important that she make the listeners aware of how this English 
    > > >presentation affects how she is viewed within her own culture. A 
    > > >growning, "required" English fluency worldwide may be what is 
    > > >happening, but that doesn't make it right.
    > > >
    > > >So we come back to how to really start changing these long-held 
    > > >ideologies. In a globalizing world--is it not better to make 
    > > >relations more close by showing alliance through language learning 
    > > >and fluency?
    > > >
    > > >-Maureen (Mo)
    > > >
    > > >"Haro! ld F. Schiffman" wrote: I think 
    > > >Leo VanLier identifies some of the issues that are crucial here. 
    > > >American linguistic culture just doesn't have the expectations and 
    > > >values about "foreign" language learning that others, do.
    > > >
    > > >He says: d) as part of a successful education, everyone was 
    > > >expected to succeed in language classes. [and] If there is one 
    > > >ingredient that stands out in my mind it is EXPECTATIONS. It was 
    > > >simply expected that an educated person spoke the three foreign 
    > > >languages....
    > > >
    > > >American linguistic culture doesn't have these expectations, and 
    > > >constantly denigrates them. Did people notice what happened a while 
    > > >back when a reporter at a press conference held by GWB asked the 
    > > >French ambassador (foreign mi! nister, whatever) a question in 
    > > >French? GWB went ballistic, chewed out the reporter, castigated 
    > > >him, mocked him, ridiculed him. Sure taught him a lesson!
    > > >
    > > >So much for the value of language learning, and using it 
    > > >appropriately.
    > > >
    > > >H. Schiffman
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >Do you Yahoo!?
    > > >Yahoo! Movies - 
    > > >Buy advance 
    > > >tickets for 'Shrek 2'
    > >
    > >Dick (Richard) Hudson, FBA
    > >Dept of Phonetics and Linguistics,
    > >University College London, Gower Street, London WC1E 6BT
    > >020 7679 3152; fax 020 7383 4108; 
    > >www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/dick/home.htm
    >
    >Dick (Richard) Hudson, FBA
    >Dept of Phonetics and Linguistics,
    >University College London, Gower Street, London W! C1E 6BT
    >020 7679 3152; fax 020 7383 4108; www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/dick/home.htm

    Dick (Richard) Hudson, FBA
    Dept of Phonetics and Linguistics,
    University College London, Gower Street, London WC1E 6BT
    020 7679 3152; fax 020 7383 4108; www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/dick/home.htm 





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