Associative plurals

[Iwasaki, Shoichi]

(1) -tachi and -ra can be a plural marker.

Gakusee-tachi = students
Gakusee-ra = students

(Only when the noun/pronoun is identifiable/definite animate, the associative meaning emerges) 


(2) boku-ra; boku-tachi  = I and my associates (e.g. friends, family members, colleagues)
This could also work inclusively ("I and you")  just like English 'we'.

"does the -ra mean "the group associated with me by also being speakers"?" --> I don't think so. Just by being another speaking body does not seem to qualify one as an associate. An associate must have more meaningful relationship with the speaker.

(3) " Does tanaka-ra ever mean "the group of people all called Tanaka"?" --> No, because "Tanaka" is identifiable/definite.

Shoichi Iwasaki





-----Original Message-----
From: funknet-bounces at mailman.rice.edu [mailto:funknet-bounces at mailman.rice.edu] On Behalf Of David Tuggy
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 4:11 PM
To: funknet
Subject: Re: [FUNKNET] Associative plurals

Thanks for the reply and the data.

-tachi is always associative -have I got that right? Is -ra also? Does 
boku-ra ever clearly mean "I and the other speakers", i.e. does the -ra 
mean "the group associated with me by also being speakers"? Does 
tanaka-ra ever mean "the group of people all called Tanaka"?

-David T


On 4/4/2011 10:19 PM, Iwasaki, Shoichi wrote:
> Lise is right about Japanese, but 'tachi' can be added to pronouns as well.  And many other Asian languages can do it too.
>
>   Japanese =
> boku-ra; boku-tachi (boku=I, -tachi, -ra = associative plural suffix)
>
>   kimi-ra; kimi-tachi (kimi=you, -tachi, -ra = associative plural suffix)
>
> tanaka-ra, tanaka-tachi (tanaka = family name, ...), 'Tanaka and the gang'
>
> Thai=
> phUak chan (phUak = group, chan = I) Me and my friends/siblings etc.
> phUak tEE = you guys
> phUak Aew (phUak = group, Aaw = (nick name))= Aew and her friends etc.
>
> Shoichi
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: funknet-bounces at mailman.rice.edu [mailto:funknet-bounces at mailman.rice.edu] On Behalf Of Lise Menn
> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 8:11 PM
> To: David Tuggy
> Cc: funknet
> Subject: Re: [FUNKNET] Associative plurals
>
> Japanese -tachi would be an example - added only (as I understand it) to personal names, and meaning 'X and those accompanying X'.  It can't be interpreted as a plural, to the best of my knowledge.
> 	Lise Menn
>
> On Apr 4, 2011, at 8:59 PM, David Tuggy wrote:
>