Associative plurals

john at research.haifa.ac.il john at research.haifa.ac.il
Wed Apr 6 07:46:46 UTC 2011


But so this is not misunderstood--in usage (1), -tachi is by no means obligatory
as a plural marker. 'gakusee' can also be 'students', not just 'student'.
Gakuseetachi is only used in particular circumstances (which a native speaker
could explain better than me). On the other hand, some sort of plural marking IS
obligatory in usage (2), otherwise the reference would be understood to be
singular.
John



Quoting "Iwasaki, Shoichi" <iwasaki at humnet.ucla.edu>:

> (1) -tachi and -ra can be a plural marker.
>
> Gakusee-tachi = students
> Gakusee-ra = students
>
> (Only when the noun/pronoun is identifiable/definite animate, the associative
> meaning emerges)
>
>
> (2) boku-ra; boku-tachi  = I and my associates (e.g. friends, family members,
> colleagues)
> This could also work inclusively ("I and you")  just like English 'we'.
>
> "does the -ra mean "the group associated with me by also being speakers"?"
> --> I don't think so. Just by being another speaking body does not seem to
> qualify one as an associate. An associate must have more meaningful
> relationship with the speaker.
>
> (3) " Does tanaka-ra ever mean "the group of people all called Tanaka"?" -->
> No, because "Tanaka" is identifiable/definite.
>
> Shoichi Iwasaki
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: funknet-bounces at mailman.rice.edu
> [mailto:funknet-bounces at mailman.rice.edu] On Behalf Of David Tuggy
> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 4:11 PM
> To: funknet
> Subject: Re: [FUNKNET] Associative plurals
>
> Thanks for the reply and the data.
>
> -tachi is always associative -have I got that right? Is -ra also? Does
> boku-ra ever clearly mean "I and the other speakers", i.e. does the -ra
> mean "the group associated with me by also being speakers"? Does
> tanaka-ra ever mean "the group of people all called Tanaka"?
>
> -David T
>
>
> On 4/4/2011 10:19 PM, Iwasaki, Shoichi wrote:
> > Lise is right about Japanese, but 'tachi' can be added to pronouns as well.
>  And many other Asian languages can do it too.
> >
> >   Japanese =
> > boku-ra; boku-tachi (boku=I, -tachi, -ra = associative plural suffix)
> >
> >   kimi-ra; kimi-tachi (kimi=you, -tachi, -ra = associative plural suffix)
> >
> > tanaka-ra, tanaka-tachi (tanaka = family name, ...), 'Tanaka and the gang'
> >
> > Thai=
> > phUak chan (phUak = group, chan = I) Me and my friends/siblings etc.
> > phUak tEE = you guys
> > phUak Aew (phUak = group, Aaw = (nick name))= Aew and her friends etc.
> >
> > Shoichi
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: funknet-bounces at mailman.rice.edu
> [mailto:funknet-bounces at mailman.rice.edu] On Behalf Of Lise Menn
> > Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 8:11 PM
> > To: David Tuggy
> > Cc: funknet
> > Subject: Re: [FUNKNET] Associative plurals
> >
> > Japanese -tachi would be an example - added only (as I understand it) to
> personal names, and meaning 'X and those accompanying X'.  It can't be
> interpreted as a plural, to the best of my knowledge.
> > 	Lise Menn
> >
> > On Apr 4, 2011, at 8:59 PM, David Tuggy wrote:
> >
>
>




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