[gothic-l] Re: gothi minores, Gothograikoi

[andreas.schwarcz at UNIVIE.AC.AT]

On 28 Dec 2000, at 17:36, Tiefi wrote:

> Thanks, but that rose some more questions
> 

> 
> Somebody in this listings mentioned Goths under Bulgarian rule in the
> 8th century. is there a possible connection? (how could they have
> survived 2-300years)did they convert to Orthodoxy or stay Arianic?
> 
Not all Goths in Thrace, Moesia and Scythia minor followed 
Theoderic to Italy. There is ample evidence of Goths in the Balkan 
regions in the sixth century. Some of their descendents may well 
have been there still under Bulgarian rule, but IMHO that cannot be 
restricted to the Gothi minores. There were a lot of other federate 
groups in the region. Wolfram, Die Goten, third edition, p.33, cites 
Walahfrid Strabo for Goths, who were speaking in "lingua 
theodisca", still living in the provinces of the Greek together with 
"scythian" peoples in the ninth century and implies that these were 
descendents of Wulfila's Gothi minores. Wolfram´s reference is 
Gerd Host, Spuren der Goten im Osten. Norwegian Journal of 
Linguistics 25(1971) 62 ff.    


You wrote:
> 
> > The Gothograikoi are mentioned rather late and surely 
> > do not got back to the raids of the third century, rather to 
> soldiers 
> > stationed in Asia minor in the eighties of the fourth century.
> 
> H. Wolfram, "Die Goten",  (if I'm not entirely wrong) wrote that they
> were still there in the 10th century, how could that be possible if it
> were only soldiers (no wifes, no farmers...)?

The Gotthograikoi are mentioned by Theophanes, Chronographia, 
A.M.6207. They supported in 715 A.D. an uprising in the thema 
Opsikion, in which Theodosios III was raised to the throne. 
Wolfram, Goten, p.33, still citing Host for this, just supposes they 
were hellenized by the tenth century. Ludwig Schmidt, Die 
Ostgermanen, second ed. (1941), p.223, cites the vita Probi (SHA) 
for settlements of Goths in Phrygia under Probus,  supposes they 
were settled as coloni and sees the Gotthograikoi as their 
descendants. This is possible, but the settlement of Greuthingi in 
Phrygia in 386 with military duties is a more reliable record given 
by Ammianus Marcellinus. Soldiers of course, be they federates or 
limitanei, also married and in peace time they tilled their lands. 
See f.i. Ramsay MacMullen, Soldier and Civilian  in the Later 
Roman Empire. Cambrige, Mass. 1963.


> 
> For both of them, is there more detailed literature than Wolfram,
> where did he get his information (Byzantine?)?
> 
Wolfram cites Host (see above)
You may also read
Gustav Karlsson, Goten, die im Osten blieben. In: Studia Gotica, 
ed.Ulf Erik Hagberg. Kungl. Vitterhets Historie och Antikvaristets 
Akademien Antikvarista serien 25. Stockholm 1972, p.165-174.

Regards and best wishes for a happy New Year
                       Andreas Schwarcz
        
Ao.Univ.Prof.Dr.Andreas Schwarcz
Institut für österreichische Geschichtsforschung
Universität Wien
Dr.Karl Lueger-Ring 1
A-1010 Wien
Österreich
Tel.0043/1/42-77/272-16
Fax 0043/142-77/92-72

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