[gothic-l] Re: Haliurunnas = Haljoruna ?

[dirk at SMRA.CO.UK]

--- In gothic-l at egroups.com, "Philip Rusche" <ruschep at n...> wrote:
>
> >  The basic meaning of halja/hel is "the concealed, the hidden";
hence
> >"the otherworld" (world of departed spirits).  On an etymological
basis one
> >wouldn't suppose any evil connotation necessarily associated with
"hel".
> >But is there any use in actual Germanic literature which _doesn't_
suggest
> >an evil meaning?



I don't know if that has anything to do with it, but there is a
wellknown trade route running through North Germany which is called
Hellweg or Helwege. This is supposedly a very ancient trade route,
but
I have no idea what the 'hell' in this name meant.

Dirk








I suppose most uses of the word are
post-Christian, in
> >which case it's picked up the significance of the (Christian use
of)
> >"Hades".  But I'd be interested to know if it ever has a more
equivocal
> >sense.
>
> This may be true for the basic, original meaning of halja/hel, but
at least
> for the Anglo-Saxons it had taken on thoroughly Christian meaning
long
> before the examples of hellerune.  In OE these are all clearly
associated
> with the Christian hell and with evil beings.  Even if these beings
are
> presented as non-Christian, they are allied with the Devil.
(besides
the
> Beowulf example, and the biblical source of the glosses, it also
occurs in
> OE in a gloss to Aldhelm's De laudibus virginitate).
> This makes the occurrence of the word in Gothic very interesting
since it
> suggests a common Gmc origin and presumably therefore an originally
pagan
> usage.
> Apparently the OHG helliruna is a translation of necromantia. The
reference
> is Grimm's Deutsche Mythologie, 1175, 1178 (according to
Bosworth-Toller).
> So all the OE and OHG examples refer to communication with the dead.
>
> Philip
>
>
>
> /\     WISTR LAG WIGS RAIHTS
> \/            WRAIQS NU IST                               <> David
Salo
> <dsalo at s...> <>


-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
Get free updates on your stocks from any phone with Tellme!
Call 1-800-555-TELL.
http://click.egroups.com/1/9535/8/_/3398/_/970732055/
---------------------------------------------------------------------_->

You are a member of the Gothic-L list.  To unsubscribe, send a blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe at egroups.com>.
Homepage: http://www.stormloader.com/carver/gothicl/index.html