Gautelfr[gothic-l]The old Border between Norway and Sweden.

[keth at ONLINE.NO]

Hello Tore,
Thank you for your response, and please excuse me for writing so
"narrow" :) It was an experiment in "graphic design". Please
imagine the text as an image of the "Göta river", where not only
water flows, but also History!  ;)

For the below (partly snipped), I was referring directly to the Getica,
especially Andreas Nordin's translation, which I believe you also have.


>Keth,
>We have discussed this before.
>Jordanes does not write about Scandza as Scandinavia.
>Jordanes says I qoute:

I must say, though, that when I read *only Jordanes' text, I am forced
to read him as actually describing Scandza as Scandinavia.
See § 19: On the Northern side of this island [Scandza] live the Adogit.
Nordin comments: Alogit are perhaps misspelling of (h)alogii, "the
inhabitants of Halogaland" (in North Norway). etc..
Clearly, Nordin himself reads the text the same way I do.

>"And at the farthest bound of its western expanse it has another island
>named Thule, of which the Mantuan bard makes mention:
>
>"And Farthest Thule shall serve thee."

It is true that Jordanes briefly mentions an island "Thyle" in § 9.
But that must refer to another place, probably Iceland. (which
the Irish knew) Prokop, however, seems to use "Thule" as name
for Scandinavia. So that means that the classical authors do
not use such half-mythical geographic names in a consistent
manner. Jordanes also seems to have copied from various books,
sometimes not himself comprehending what the exact nature of the
descriptions he was copying were. Hence we should also expect
contradictions within the Getica itself.


>The same mighty sea has also in its arctic region, that is in the north, a
>great island named  Scandza, from which my tale (by God's grace) shall take
>its beginning. "

Quotes from Getica's Swedish translation & Latin:
Det vidsträckta havet har även i sin arktiska, det vil säga norra
del, en stor ö vid namn Scandza, om hvilken jag med Herrens
hjälp skal säga något. (from Nordin's § 9)
(Habet quoque is ipse inmensus pelagus in parte artoa,
id est septentrionali, amplam insulam nomine Scandzam,
unde nobis sermo, si dominus iubaverit, es adsumpturus,
quia gens, cuius originem flagitas, ab huius insulae gremio
velut examen apium erumpens in terram Europae advinit:
quomodo vero aut qualiter, in subsequentibus, si dominus
donaverit, explanavimus.)
 

>
>Jordanes name for the Scandinavian peninsula is Thule.
>Further he does not call Scandza a "large" island but a "great" island.
>Tore

This what you here refer to is Nordin's "en stor ö vid namn Scandza"?
In Latin it is (see above) "amplam insulam nomine Scandzam."

I know this word from contemporary usage as "amplitude" (for 
example in "The amplitude of a pendulum" that is in the theory
of oscillations: Utslag, Ausschlagsweite, svängning, utslag af
visare, pändel.) For the Latin adjective "amplus" I find "large,
spacious, ample; geräumig, umfangreich, groß, weit, ansehlich".

But in my opinion "large" is approximately the same as "great".
(Groß und ausgestreckt/ausgedehnt sind ungefähr gleichbedeutend.)


Best regards
Keth


>>We then also re-
>>cognize Jordanes'
>>Aeragnarici as
>>"Ranriki" or
>>Båhuslen, as it
>>was later called.
>>
>>What about the
>>Jordanes' Ostro-
>>gothae then?
>>Since Jordanes
>>mentions these
>>in the same sent-
>>ence as the Raum-
>>arici and the
>>A(c)-Ragnaricii,
>>it lies near at
>>hand to assume
>>that several
>>centuries before
>>the Viking Age,
>>in Jordanes'
>>time, around
>>500 AD, the in-
>>habitants of
>>Gautland/Götaland
>>were called "Ostro-
>>Gothae".
>>
>>Ragnaricanically,
>>
>>Keth.



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