[gothic-l] Re: Digest Number 448-ætternisstapi-C.Plinius Secundus.

[einarbirg]

--- In gothic-l at y..., Ingemar Nordgren <ingemar.nordgren at e...> wrote:
>   From: "einarbirg" <einarbirg at y...>
> Subject: Re: Heruls and rchaeology-Etymologi-Connection:Heruli-
Skaldship
> Einar wrote:
> --- In gothic-l at y..., "Bertil Haggman" <mvk575b at t...> wrote:
> 
>  > Einar,
>  >
>  > Well, in that case, I have no objection.
>  >
>  > Concerning the Gautrek Saga it is a Westgoeta saga
>  > and was published in 1664 by Olof Verelius, a Swedish historian.
>  > Gautrek was a Vaestergoetland king, father of the hero
>  > Rolf Gautreksson. There must in my opinion also be
>  > a connection between Gautrek - Gaut - Gautland.
>  > The Hrolfssaga Gautrekssonar is an Icelandic continuation
>  > from the 14th century, so the Gautrek Saga must be older
>  > than the 14th century, but I couldn't say how old.
> 
> 
> Einar, Hæ Bertil.   Thanks for your very interesting info. I will
> later try to find out when this word ´ætternisstapi´ turned up in
> Ice.literature.
> 
> 
>  >
>  > But in my opinion aettestupa has its origin in Gautrek's
>  > saga and the word might have entered Icelandic from
>  > the Vaestgoeta language.
> 
> Hi Einar and Bertil,
> 
> I think Einar is right  fundamentally about the etymology of 
> ´ætternisstapi´. It is not specificially from Västergötland but a 
> common ON word   from old Scandinavia and from Landnám-time also on 
> Iceland. Still the sense of 'stapi' and 'stupa' may be the same. If 
> 'stapi'can mean a mountain or a hill and  'stupa' is a steep  down 
from 
>   a mountain or hill  it leads to the ätte-mountain - kins-
mountain - 
> where a family/a kin ruled or lived. If  they choose, like in 
Gautreks 
> saga, to jump down a steep from there to die like heroes and go to 
Óðinn 
> - so what? It is still the same mountain. The translation 'stupa' 
> however must be  a wrongunderstanding of 'stapi' but probably with 
kept 
> sense. I think it also in Eyarbyggarsaga is mentioned a special 
hill in 
> which the dead of the local family dwelled and that was  very 
revered by 
> the farmer.

   Einar;

   Hæ Ingemar. Thanks for info. I think you are right here. ´stupa´ 
could be somekind of a wrongunderstanding of ´stapi´. I do not know.
> 
> About 'ätt' Einar states that is not family. Agreed. Originally  in 
> Scandinavia we had the same way as the continental Germanics. The 
> Germans differ between Familie- the local person with wife and 
kids  and 
> grandparents, Sippe - the closer circle of relatives outside the 
family 
> - and Stamme or Geschlecht meaning something like Celtic clan. With 
us 
> we had 'familj', ätt and kind. Familj and ätt are still different. 
I 
> live at the foot of Kinnekulle meaning the Kind-mountain - 
> Kins-mountain. Accordingly an ´ætternisstapi´!?

 Einar; This is interesting. I do not think we have such a name in 
Iceland for a mountain. But there are many mountains with this ´stapi´

In Cleasby et al. they say; ´ætternisstapi´,a,m. a mythical name of a 
rock; for this legend see Gautreks Saga ch. I, 2, compare Pliny´s 
Hist. Nat. iv ch 12.

Ætternisstapi seems to be mentioned a few times in Gaut.Saga. 
Like; "ganga fyrir ætternistapa", which I have explained earlier and 
Quote; og þar í hjá(Gyllingshamri) er stapi sá er vér köllum 
Ætternisstapa...því heitir það Ætternisstapi að þar með fækkum vér 
vort ætterni.
Trans; nearby(or with/at) Gyllings-cliff is the cliff that we call 
Ætternisstapi.... the name is Ætternisstapi because there we reduce 
in number/make fewer our relatives/kinsmen.

Pliny was a funny fellow. I think he died in 79 A.D. in the eruption 
of Vesúvíus, Italy.                                                   
I have here the book; The Natural History of C. Plinius Secundus.
In the Fourth Book there is a chapter about the Hyperborei.          
 
There Pliny is describing the midnight sun in northern countries.     
Quote; For six months together they have one entire day; and night as 
long, when the sun is clean turned from them...............

Later on the page,quote; Their habitations be in woods and groves, 
where they worship the gods both by themselves, and in the companies 
and congregations: no discord know they, no sickness are they 
acquainted with. They never die, but when they have lived long 
enough : for when the aged men have made good cheer, and anointed 
their bodies with sweet ointments, they leap from off a certain rock 
into the sea. This kind of sepulture, of all others is most happy.

Einar; It is obvious that such suicide was somekind of a ritual.
And that other members of the family/kin took part in it.
It seems to have been looked at as a good and honorable procedure to 
die in such a way.

 Then he talkes about the North Sea Islanders and the islands lying 
north of Britain(seems to me).                                  
Quote;(talking about the northern islands)The farthest of all, which 
are known and spoken of, is Thule; in which there be no nights at 
all,as we have declared, about midsummer, namely when the sun passeth 
through the sign Cancer; and contrariwise no days in midwinter.......

Bless,bless, Einar.


> 
> Better now to continue on Germanic-L maybe.
> 
> Kindly
> Ingemar


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