[gothic-l] Old Nordic, Gothic and Old Gutnish

[Bertil Häggman]

Francisc,

Thanks for your reply on the differences between
North Germanic and Gothic, although in the
case of Old Gutnish we probably
have a language that was very close to Gothic.
Most likely Old Gutnish was not a dialect but
an independent language. It is an East
Scandinavian language. There is of course
much uncertainty about the early development
of West and North Germanic languages.
The split likely took place around the 6th
century AD (a split you noted).

>Please excuse this late reply, but I was very busy last days.
You mentioned the differences between North Germanic and Gothic (East 
Germanic). But there are some common innovations also, that 
distinguish them from West Germanic.
Different sources (my sources are given in the note below) claim that 
there are several such common features of Gothic and North Germanic, 
but only three of them are currently cited (Gmc = Common Germanic, ON 
>= Old Norse, OHG = Old High German, OE = Old English):

Indeed, Francisc, we do agree on # 1. ii>ggj, uu>ggw
daegga in Swedish = daddjan in Gothic and the examples
you use.

Then there is the inchoative verbs ending with -nan in
Gothic, Nordic -na: Gothic fullnan=to become full,
gabignan=become rich etc. Old Swedish somna=
go to sleep, svartna=become black, blekna=to pale,
troettna=become tired and so on (# 3 underneath).

Professor Elias Wessén once pointed to
the old connections between Scandinavia and
South East Europe, between Sweden and
Romania in the area of language.
Probably the runes were created in South East
Europe under the Goths. Some of the inscriptions
in Scandinavia are older, but these latter might
just be a coincidence.


>1. Gmc. -jj- > ON -ggj-, Goth. -ddj- (<*-ggj- with palatal g)
Example: Goth. twaddje "of two" (genitive, Lat. duorum), ON tveggja, 
O.Swed.&O.Dan. twaggiae, but: OHG zwei(i)o, OE twég(e)a

>2. Similarly, Gmc. *-ww- > ON, Goth. -ggw-
Example: Goth. triggws "true, faithful", ON tryggue, O.Icel. tryggr, 
Swed., Norw. trygg, but: OHG triuwo, gi-triuwi, OE ge-triewe

>3. The existence of the fourth class of weak verbs in Gothic and 
Norse, ending in -na-/-no-: Goth. fullnan "to be filled, to become 
full", ON versna "to become worse". But it is possible that this 
verbal class existed also in West Germanic languages and disappeared 
before their earliest attestations.

>"However, even if there was more resemblance between Scandinavian and 
Gothic than between Scandinavian and West Germanic, the difference was 
still more clearly marked than the resemblance, so that scholars have 
to come to the conclusion that the North Germanic languages should be 
treated as an independent group" [quoted from source 1, see the note 
>below].

>Furthermore, we must not forget that Gothic was very clearly 
individualized against West and North Germanic, and there are some 
common innovations of West and North Germanic that are totally absent 
in Gothic. The most striking are:

>1. the rhotacism Gmc. *z > "soft" R > r, both in West and North 
Germanic; in Gothic z was preserved, and in final position z > s.
Example: Goth. dius "animal, beast", ON dyr, OHG tiur (Germ. Tier), 
O.Sax. dior, OE deor (Eng. deer).

>2. The Umlaut, that appeared however at different moments in the West 
and North Germanic languages. In Wulfilan Gothic it is totally absent 
(as it was also in all the contemporary West and North Germanic 
languages), while in Crimean, because its attestation is to poor and 
>distorted, we can not say anything.

>NOTE:
The sources that I used for this post are:
1. Virgil Stefanescu-Draganesti: "Introduction to the Comparative 
Grammar of the Germanic Languages", University of Bucharest, 1971
2. Andreas Heusler: "Altisländische Elementarbuch", Carl Winter 
Universitätsverlag, Heidelberg, 1967
3. Werner König: dtv-Atlas zur deutschen Sprache", Deutsche 
>Taschenbuch Verlag, München, 1994

My personal opinion is that Old Gutnish may be the
missing link. Not identical with Gothic but an
East Scandinavian language that cannot be placed
with the North Germanic languages.

>My conclusion would be that the subgrouping of the Germanic languages 
in three distinct branches: East, West, and North Germanic, is well 
>founded.

Haven't made any detailed research but an interesting
comparison might be The Lord's Prayer in Gothic
and in Gutnish around 1742. Such a Guthnish version exists.

Gothically

Bertil




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