[gothic-l] Re: Hachmann: to Ingemar and Keth

[ingemar.nordgren at EBOX.TNINET.SE]

--- In gothic-l at y..., dirk at s... wrote:

> > because he admits diverse local emigrations. 
> 
> 
> He does? My reading is that he ruled out any 'significant' influx 
from 
> Scandinavian cultures into the Masovian group (i.e. Wilbark 
culture). 
> Hachmann stated, in my view, only on the basis of name similarities 
> that there must have been some contact at some time. 

Yes, he indeed admitted the possibility of minor local emigrations 
from Scandinavia but ruled out a major one. That is not the same as 
stating Scandinavian influence in the Masovian group which he did 
not.He also rules out the lower part of the Vistula region as Gothic 
and so is able to look away from Scandinavian patterns.

> I don't think that Hachmann seeks to prove a pre-conceived point. 
> Instead, he seems to be one of the very few and possibly the first 
> scholar to have treated this question free of 
patriotic-nationalistic 
> pre-conceptions. 

I give you he seems quite neutral until he introduces his Masovian 
group  which I think was in his back-head all the time.


> Finally he ends upp with admitting he can not prove the Goths were 
continental nor that they were Scandinavian. 
 
> That is not quite right I am afraid. Hachmann clearly states that 
the continental Goths are, as bearers of the Masovian group (Wilbark 
> culture) an authochon culture that originated as successor of the 
> Oxthoefter culture and splinter group of the Przworsk culture on the 
> continent. Thus, Hachmann states explicitly that the continental 
Goths originated on the continent and not in Scandinavia. This is also 
the  mainstream view among archaeologists involved this this matter.

He claims the Masovian group might have been the Goths but he 
definitely not states their origin with any certainty. He means they 
took over an older culture in the area but never states their exact 
origin but he beleives it is continental.

> Hachmann concludes by saying that there is no archaeological 
evidence 
> that the Masovian group (i.e. Goths) came from Scandinavia, but also 
> that there is no evidence that people of the Masovian group (i.e. 
> Goths) migrated to Scandinavia.

All he says is that their-the Masovians- jewellery is influenced from 
La Tène and not from Scandinavia. Accordingly he has not proven the 
Goths having neither a continental nor a Scandinavian origin because 
he never states the first origin.

Kindly
Ingemar


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