[gothic-l] Re: Gaut, Gapt

[keth at ONLINE.NO]

>Andreas Schwarcz wrote:
>> To complicate things further, we must also take into account that
>> late antique and early medieval scibes did not distinguish between
>> u and v and used both letters either as vowels or as consonants.
>> Thus Rausus could have been spoken Rafsus and Raptus been
>> spoken Raftus or Rautus. And Gaut and Gapt could both have
>> been spoken Gaut and Gaft.

Anders wrote:
>I really can't follow the logic here. Why would you write Raptus when
>it should be pronounced Rautus? Are these aknowleged latin spelling
>rules? I know that the sound changes v>f (i think i recall the term
>assimilation from the linguistics course as in ru. avtomat- here
>becaus the v is next to a t), p>f , b>v and v>w, Theese changes of
>course ocurrs as time passes. Thus I have never seen a case in wich p
>instantly is turned into an u.

I think I understood something now:
The Dutch "v" is a voiced "f",
(example: de Veluwe, vulpen, vorm, vrij, etc)
and it is labio-dental.
But if you made it bi-labial, you'd probably approximate
the early medieval "v" that was used in Italy ca. AD 500.
What this then amounts to (I think), is a normal modern
Scandinavian "u" that is prononced without rounding the lips,
but rather by holding the lips together so that they make
a fricative. That would give you a voiced bi-labial fricative.
Then  Gavt  /vacillates/ with Gaft  and Gapt.

Of course u and v were the same letter (sign/char).
Also assume they used only p or f. (is that true?)
Then one mystery remains, which is why they sometimes
wrote Gavt and other times Gaft or didn't they?
Maybe the rule was always to write v before t as f.
Maybe this had someting to do with the transition
voiced -> unvoiced. Then avt has 2 voiced, 1 unvoiced,
but aft has 1 voiced, 2 unvoiced.  So the explanation
then is that the economy of speech made them go from
voiced to unvoiced one letter earlier, which resulted in
avt -> aft.

:)

Did I get it now?
Best regards
Keth





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