[gothic-l] Re: Harlingen

[dirk at SMRA.CO.UK]

Hi Troels and Keth,

I am probably of very little help in any placename debate, but in 
general South-German placenames ending in -ing or -ingen are 
indicative of Alamannic settlements, while placenames ending in -heim 
are seen as Frankish (at least in the relevant areas).  

The placenames that I mentioned Herlingo/Herulingo, (but could also be 
 Herlingio and Herulingio) are refering to the Harlinger Land in 
Frisia (Germany). I encountered these names in a history of Lower 
Saxony and I think these forms dated to the 9th century. The book (I 
cannot remember the exact reference right now) made however no link to 
the Heruls; that is my own speculation. 


> >Both places are in the area where the Western Heruls could be 
> >expected to live, when we combine the Roman sources. A similar name 
> >from 832/853 is found close to or in the Herulian areas of Austria 
> >(Herilungoburg/Herilungevelde confirmed by Andreas). 
> >


I didn't know these placenames, but they seem to confirm that the name 
may really better be written with an H, if all those names really 
refer to the Heruls.


> >I did not see the importance of the Frisian name Harlingen before 
> >Dirk also provided us with the earlier form, but the 4 names above 
> >and their reverse combinations of letters could be another 
indication 
> >confirming the theory about a connection between the words Eruli
> >(L)/Herul(G/E), Eorl(OE)/Earl(E)/Erell(Irish 847) and ErilaR(ON 
runes 
> >450-550) as H is often silent. 
> >
> >I have this question to our linguists:  
> >
> >Is it possible to compare acceptable deviations from the same name 
in 
> >this way? 
> >Names of places: Herul- - Harl-/Herl- - Heril-
> >Names of groups: Herul  - Earl  -  Erel-/Eril-
> >
> >The ending -ingo/-ungo/-unge might be the ending known from 
Nibelungen
> >(G), Völsungen(G), Skjoldunger(D) or Ynglinge(S) - or from the
> >name mentioned in connection with the Goths in Widsith: Herelingas
> >(OE) probably being the Heruls.  
> 
> I recall that around 3 or 4 years ago, on Oldnorsenet I asked 
Hermann
> Reichert about suffixes, and he was kind enough to answer and give a
> short perspective on some aspects of the topic. One sentence he 
wrote
> that fixed itself in my memory, is that he said a lot more research
> needed to be done on suffixes. (in Germanic and Indo-European 
languages
> I assume he meant, because that was the context. Especially the 
Germanic ones.)
> 
> At the time I also did some look-up work concerning such suffixes
> as we are now discussing. In particular the -ling suffix, that 
should
> be distinguished from the -ing suffix. For example in Holland they
> say "stommeling" (=dummkopf!), whereas in Norway we say "dumming".
> (fx "Han er ingen dumming.")
> 
> Well, -ing and -ling suffixes in placenames? Scandinavia, Holland,
> Germany?   I do not know enough about it.



As I said above. In South Germany the -ing -ingen ending is ususally 
taken as  typical Alamannic. But I also noted that -ing/-ung can 
denote a person or a group of people. We have the placename 
Amaling-hausen close to my home town and also a village by the name of 
Amelung. While those places have nothing to do with the Amals,  at 
least the name Amelinghausen is believed to refere to a Germanic/Saxon 
clan called the Amelings. I.e. Amelinghausen means the home of the 
Amelings. My home town is called Wittingen. It is also believed that 
the name referes to an otherwise unknown Saxon group. An old gau-name 
south of my home town is **Duringo**. It means land of the 
Thuringians. The area was taken by the Saxons after the defeat of the 
Thuringian kingdom in the 530sAD. Duringo borders on the gau 
**Bardengo/Longobardingo**, the land of the Langobards. In these 
instances the -ing seems to refer to groups of people.




 The only thing I know
> is the coastal Holland has a number of placenames that are very
> reminiscent of Scandinavian ones. For example "Stavenisse", 
> which should correspond to Norwegian "Staveness"  (=the promontory
> of sticks [staffs]) That is only an example. 


Stav and Staven means staff in Low Saxon/Low Franconian and 'nisse' is 
reminisent to some placenames ending on '-nese' meaning nose in 
Low Saxon and refering to a peninsula type of elongated bit of land. 
See for example Blankenese in Hamburg. 
Much of this placename research can be found in the recent work of  
Prof. Juergen Udolf: For a summary:

http://www.gwdg.de/~uhsw/udolph1.htm


cheers,
Dirk


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