[gothic-l] Re: Crimean Goths ? Where did they up at last ?

[dirk at SMRA.CO.UK]

--- In gothic-l at y..., Leonardo "Hernández-Cortez" <roderic_711 at y...> 
wrote:
> Hello, here I go again with some other
> questions(unfortunately I can't really give you all a
> brief summary of the vandal article right now since
> I've got access to the net only at work for the moment
> and I haven't got much time )
> I'm extremely interested in knowing more about the
> Crimean Goths.
> I've seen some pages on the internet about them (can't
> remember where)but I would like to know, also in case
> the information has been erroneous.
> 
> Where the Crimean Goths descendants of the Ostrogoths
> who stayed there in spite of the hunnic attacks ?


Hi Leonardo,

Tore has already pointed to a good book about the Crimean Goths by 
A.A. Vasiliev. But in short: Yes, the Crimean Goths are the 
descendents of Ostrogoths, probably mixed with Alans who had settled 
on the Crimean from the mid-3rd century AD.




> I've read that in 13th century and 16th century some
> flemish diplomats met people on crimea who spoke
> "ydioma teutonicum" and it's know that 18th century is
> the last time anybody hears anything about them,
> or...?


If you search the archive of this list, you should be able to find 
most of the details about the Crimean Gothic world list compiled in 
the 16th century.



> I've read that it was in one of the many  deportation
> campaigns done in the name Catherine the Great that
> the Goths finally vanished from history, or...?
> Is it really then the very last time anyone hears from
> them(witness accounts, encounters, etc.. )
> And where to did they get deported ?


>From my reading of Vasiliev, this is only an indirect reference. In 
the 18th century when Crimea came to Russia, Catherine the Great 
resettled Christians from the Crimean to the areas north of the Sea of 
Azov. It can be speculated, as Vasiliev said that some of those 
Crimean Christians, who all spoke the Tatar language may have had ' a 
drop of Gothic blood'. Thus, the original Crimean Goths, were first 
hellenised, than tatarised, but they most likely maintained their 
Christian religion.





> Are there still any villages or just places in general
> left in Crimea or even Ucraine/Moldova/Bielorussia who
> still bears any name related to them ? 



If I remember correctly from Vasiliev, there is almost no placename 
evidence on the Crimean for the presence of the Goths. In fact, I 
think no Germanic placenames have been identified at all, but I could 
be mistake. Btw, their  'capital' was at Mangup. Here lies also one of 
the problems with the report of the Flemish ambassador. He spoke to 
people who claimed that there are many Gothic speakers at Mangup in 
the 1560s. When another traveller actually reached Mangup a few years 
later, he found only a few Greek monks and Jews living their, but no 
Goths.

 
> Is there any book on the Crimean Goths or/and Crimean
> Gothic ?


see Tore's message with the reference to Vasiliev's book. Also, 
Andreas Schwarcz has written a concise article about the Krimgoten in 
the Reallexikon fuer Germanische Altertumskunde.


> Is Crimean gothic(I've read that it's really a dialect
> only ) very different from "the original" language ?
> Any influences from other cultures(slavs, turks,
> greeks...) ?


Our linguists will have to answer that, but I think the word list of 
the Flemish ambassador shows influence from other languages 
(Alan/Iranic?)


> 
> And finally, is it despite everything.. still spoken ?


Definitely not. Funnily, under Hitler research was financed to 
discover the whereabouts of the Crimean Goths; with no sucess of 
course, as they had vanished from history centuries earlier.

cheers,
Dirk

 


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