[gothic-l] Re: Names of Heruls

[Einar Birgisson]

--- In gothic-l at y..., dirk at s... wrote:
> --- In gothic-l at y..., "Einar Birgisson" <einarbirg at y...> wrote:
> > --- In gothic-l at y..., dirk at s... wrote:
> > > --- In gothic-l at y..., "Einar Birgisson" <einarbirg at y...> wrote:
> > > > --- In gothic-l at y..., dirk at s... wrote:
> > > > > --- In gothic-l at y..., Tore Gannholm <tore.gannholm at s...> 
> wrote:
> > 
> >   Einar; Hæ 
Dirk.                                                    
>  
> > 
> > These are all speculations. 
> 
> No, these are not speculations, but the results of analyses 
conducted 
> by scholars who know a great deal more about this than the two of 
us. 
>  Einar; Hæ Dirk.                                                  
 
 Well, it seems to me that the majority of scholars accept that 
Procopius writings about the travel of the Heruli to Scandinavia is 
trustworthy..                                                         

If you are here(above) talking about the analysis made by Walter 
Goffart in Narrators of Barbarian History(I hope the book´s name is 
right here) then I did not find his approach trustworthy and it was 
very much lacking in depth.And his approach was not made in a neutral 
manner. Far away from 
that.                                                                
I have discussed that opinion of mine in a special letter. The name 
of the letter was: Walter Goffart(as far as I remember).
> 
> You can not have any idea about what 
> > educated Greeks were expecting. And you have no idea of the 
> > intentions of Procopius. Neither you nor anybody else.
> 
> 
> Again, I suggest you read some of the modern scholars who analysed 
> Procopius' writing and other contemporary works, before coming up 
with 
>   statements like this. In fact, a great deal is known about 
> Procopius' intentions, outlook, political views. Also a great deal 
is 
> known about the general state of knowledge among educated 
Byzantines 
> of that time. 
> 
> > 
> > And are you saying that there were these ancient geographers that 
> > were so unreliable? 
> 
> I never said that ancient geographers were unreliable. I was only 
> writing about Procopius who was not a geographer.
>  
> >Must be if Procopius just copied from them?
> 
> Procopius used many sources, some of them reliable, others less so. 
> Bits about the mid-night sun in Thule and Scandia were common-place 
in 
>  the mediterranean world and they add not a jota of extra 
credibility 
> to Procopius story.

> > And maybe you can support your claims with 
evidence.                 
> 
> 
> Well, at least I have cited passages from Procopius that 
demonstrate 
> my case extremely well. Speaking of evidence, perhaps you want to 
come 
> up with something in that line yourself for once. 

  Einar;, YOU are making claims. Then YOU have to support your case 
with evidence. Claims without evidence or good arguments are not 
worth much....
The majority of scholars seem to accept my view here. So it is up to 
you to prove that they are not right. And you were making claims 
here,not me.

And you have not answered my question from letter 5119.               
  From where did Procopius copy the descriptions of the customs of 
the Skriðfinnar(the Lappish tribes in northern Scandinavia) from???

If you can not answer that question in a satisfactory way then I will 
assume, that you are making claims that you can not support with good 
arguments nor evidence. That is you are just expressing you opinion 
or the opinion of likeminded scholars. Scholars who might be making 
claims,they can not support with evidence or good arguments..
> 
> I know, for you Procopius just has to be reliable, his story just 
has 
> to be true no matter what arguments and evidence casts doubt on it, 
> because you want to promote you theory according to which  the 
Heruls 
> went on to settle in Iceland. On the way to achieve that you bash 
> together all sorts of indications that suit you and discard 
anything 
> that stands in your way.

  Einar; You have a great problem of sticking to the subject of 
discussion. Unfortunately for you, your analysis of my intentions is 
not right. I have no obsession about that matter. I am really relaxed 
because I have so far not seen any arguments from you that do cast 
doubt on Procopiu´s writings(about that particular subject). 

And the above sentence: "On the way to achieve that you bash together 
all sorts of indications that suit you and discard anything that 
stands in your way"                                                   
Unfortunately you analysis here is not right either. Here you are 
descriping your own way of arguing against Procopiu´s writings(about 
that particular subject). So you must be writing in front of a mirror.

And I have great problems taking the writings of Walter Goffart(about 
Procopius and Jordanes) seriously. It seems to me that many scholars 
have the same problems.
> 
> Your argument would benefit greatly from a bit more open-mindedness 
> and especially from a bit more up-front information. 

 Einar; I think you should incorporate this open-mindedness in your 
approach. That would help a lot when discussing that subject.

Bless,bless. Einar.
> 
> 
> cheers,
> Dirk


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