[gothic-l] Re: Snorri, Heruls, and Goths

Wed Dec 18 19:02:45 UTC 2002

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, george knysh <gknysh at y...> wrote:
> The story of "Odin from Asgard" as written down in the
> early 13th century, makes no sense whatsoever, either
> historically or archaeologically, if any attempt is
> made to interpret it as a coherent whole. It has
> smatterings of the Troy legend, of course, but I am
> ready to bet my bottom dollar that no one will ever be
> able to connect it to any real historical events (as a
> total package), whether of the 1rst c. BC (that
> attempt was made on Cybalist) or of the 1rst c. AD, or
> of the 5th or 6th c. AD or any century BC or AD. The
> euhemerian hypothesis still seems viable, as does
> Troels' suggestion that Snorri may have put together a
> number of distinct events from various times and
> places (the devil is in the details however). 

### Hej.
I agree with Troels here and you about the "total package".
But there are interesting similarities between Procopius and Snorri. 
(Just briefly here and after my best memory). 
A.The chronology in Procopius story and Snorri's account harmonize 
almost perfectly.
B. According to Procopius they settled next to the Gauti. According 
to Snorri in the Mälar valley, which is next to the Gauti.
C. No king was leading the migration according to both Procopius and 
Snorri.
D. As many have demonstrated (and stated by Procopius)then the Heruli 
split up in two or more factions before the migration. According to 
Snorri then Odin left with just a faction of this mysterious tribe 
(many people left with him etc). Then it is stated clearly that Odin 
left his two brothers behind and they were still rulers (then over 
the faction/factions staying behind), meaning the ruling class, 
aristocracy was split up. There seems to be evidence for this (see 
Dirks account). So here Procopius (plus other evidence) and Snorri 
harmonize perfectly.
E. Paralells between the travel-story of the prince Sveigdir and the 
prince Datius can be found.

The above were just my observations after reading Ynglingasaga and 
Procopius.
Then I want to say that Snorri had no reason for manipulation when 
presenting this tribe from the south, their arrival and that these 
were humans(not Gods).
 And I dont think that the name of this leader of this southern tribe 
was Odin.
We should respect the wish of the listowner and move the discussion 
to G-L (that is if there is more to say).

Bless Einar

 Some of
> the more original interpretations I have encountered
> see "Odin" as the original carrier of Indo-European
> "values" to Scandinavia (sometime in the late 4th
> millennium BC) from the Ponto-Caspian "homeland". And
> there is also Pritsak's interesting view that he
> represents the "reformer(s)" of the older futhark
> (allegedly on the basis of the Turkic script of
> Khazaria). I don't see any Gothic connection
> however.==== As for the Heruli: I think there is no
> problem in accepting the basic veracity of Procopius'
> account concerning the migration to Scandinavia in the
> early 6th c. It is confirmed by Jordanes' obiter
> dictum about the conflict between Danes and Heruli.
> But the subsequent fate of this group is wrapped in
> mist, even though interesting notions have been
> advanced concerning its transmogrification into
> various ruling clans in Scandinavia.==== Gothic
> Christianity cannot be doubted. It is already attested
> in the early 4th c. (we're not sure if this pertains
> to the Crimea or the Danubian area though), and while
> most Goths remained pagan while in the East (there is
> no evidence of massive Christianity in the burial
> rites of the Chernyakhiv culture) they certainly
> converted in the course of the middle and later 5th
> century. The Crimean Goths BTW adopted Orthodox
> Christianity of the Byzantine variety.
> 
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