[gothic-l] Re: Gothic Christianity and elves

[Dr. Dirk Faltin <dirk@smra.co.uk>]

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Einar Gunnar Birgisson 
<einarbirg at y...>" <einarbirg at y...> wrote:
> --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Dr. Dirk Faltin <dirk at s...>" 
> <dirk at s...> wrote:
> > 
> Hi Dirk
> I think Albareik has presented very good and convincing arguments 
> and done so in a balanced manner. I am neither pagan nor Christian 
> and I dont care if the Goths in the period in question were devoted 
> Christians or not. I feel that the situation was a little bit more 
> complicated than some will have us to believe and therefore welcome 
> the balanced account of Albareiks and his arguments.
> After following the discussion I can see nothing against the idea 
to 
> assume it as a possibility that the pagan Heruli who migrated to 
> Scandinavia in the beginning of the the 6th century could have been 
> carriers of ancient Gothic pagan traditions to some degree.




Hi Einar, 

if you are content to maintain a notion that lacks any evidence, you 
can certainly maintain this view. But you should also consider the 
arguement that were brought forward on the other side of the debate. 






> 
> Regarding Gothic Christianity! Can we learn anything from the 
> present! In my country (Iceland) Christianity is the State religion 
> and there are churches spread all over the country. Even so then 
> only a small minority of the nation is devoted Christians. And 
these 
> devoted Christians are divided in many groups, each following their 
> own doctrine. According to research and statistics then the 
majority 
> of people up here dont believe in the Christian doctrine (which in 
> many cases they have no knowledge of) but believe in the law of 
> karma, being reborn, believe in elves, other dimensions or simply 
> are atheists. 



Whaaaat? The majority of Icelanders believe in elves and other 
dimensions?????????????????????




> Though most agree there might be some higher spiritual 
> beings around somewhere.


Elves?????? you mean like in fary tales?????? 



> The religious minority though turns a blind eye to this and wants 
to 
> picture the nation as devoted Christians.



But elves, for crying out loud!!!! Surely nobody beyond the age of 4 
believes in elves???





> Not long ago the Church was a powerful authority in society. Did 
> people have a choice! Regarding the Goths, was it different back 
> then!



You mean elves, like those little creatures with pointed ears????


> 
> Excuse me but I have a few words on Ynglingasaga which I have 
> compared to the account of Procopius (in letter 6762). 




.... sorry can't read on, must recover from the elves-shock first! 




> It seems to 
> be accepted that Ynglingasaga is to a large degree based on the now 
> lost Skjoldungasaga. 


Did that include elves as well?????


> It is naturally not known how much. 


How many, you mean elves?


> According 
> to N.C.Lukman then the Skjoldungs were the Heruli. Lukman's fine 
and 
> extensive research has caused much controversy. The prominent 
> Norwegian scholar Claus Krag does accept Lukman's conclusions as I 
> have pointed out before.


Yes, but does Claus Krag also believe in elves????




 Therefore there is a reason to believe that 
> a part of the Heruli history might be found in Ynglingasaga (all 
> mixed up naturally). 



Naturally, I think anybody who believes in elves would get things 
mixed up!!!



> Naturally the attension turns to the arrival of 
> the southern tribe into the Mälar valley 


I think if I believed in elves I would naturally turn to the Maelar 
valley as well, but only then.



> described in Ynglingasaga.
> I wanted to add this info 


The info about Icelanders and their elves-religion will sustain me 
over the holidays, I'm sure;-) 




> but not start a thread as it is 
> unappropriate on this list 


Yes, but perhaps there is an elves-L discussion list.


>and I have nothing more to add at the 
> moment.
>



Sorry Einar, no hard feelings, we city-slickers can be cruel;-)

All the best from London

Dirk 

But elves???


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