[gothic-l] Re: Ostrogothic Dress

[faltin2001]

--- In gothic-l at y..., Tore Gannholm <tore.gannholm at s...> wrote:
> >--- In gothic-l at y..., "ingemarn2000" <ingemar.nordgren at e...> wrote:
> >>  --- In gothic-l at y..., "faltin2001" <dirk at s...> wrote:
> >>  > Here is the URL to a page (in German) which shows on top a
> >picture of
> >>  > one of the famous mosaics from San Apollinare, Ravenna. The 
text
> >>  > draws attention to the fact that the three persons in the 
middle
> >of
> >>  > the picture (i.e. the 3 holy kings) are dipicted in trousers,
> >with
> >>  > cloaks and so called Phrygian caps. The text states that this 
is
> >>  > probably typical Ostrogothic dress of the early 6th century, 
as
> >>  > opposed to the other figures, who wear classical Roman dress.
> >>  > Interestingly, Amalasuintha was also depicted wearing this
> >Phrygian
> >>  > cap, which might indicate that the text is right and Goths 
wore
> >this
> >>  > type of headdress.
> >>
> >>  Hi Dirk!
> >>
> >>  Thank you for this information. I have since long beleived the
> >>  Sparlösa rune-stone in Västergötland to depict a Gothic Arian 
motif
> >>  with a cathredal, a ship with crossed sail, two gothic peacocks 
and
> >a
> >>  rider hunting with  a phrygian cap on his head and a sword 
pointing
> >>  tovards a beast- jaguar or something - and followed by a dog. 
Now it
> >>  is confirmed he wears a Gothic cap. This means Christianity  
might
> >>  have arrived in Sweden already in the 6th century among 
individuals
> >>  just as I have since long claimed.The stone is however dated 
till
> >9th
> >>  century which is  evidently dubious now. It is written in the 
young
> >>  futhark but a lot of the writing is corrupted and impossible to
> >read.
> >>   There is one known younger inscription also. Maybe there is an
> >older
> >>  writing in the corrupted part. A mystery indeed.
> >>
> >>  Kindly
> >>  Ingemar
> >
> >
> >Hello again Ingemar,
> >
> >I had a look at this rune stone:
> >
> >http://home.no.net/ahruner/se-rune-sparloesa.jpg
> >
> >
> >I must say it requires a good deal of imagination to see the head
> >dress of the horse man as a Phrygian cap. Also, the sail of the 
ship
> >is a give-away that the stone cannot date to the 6th century, as
> >sails were not used on the Baltic Sea at that time.
> >
> >cheers,
> >Dirk
> >


> 
> Sorry Dirk,
> Västergötland is not on the Baltic Sea. I recommend a map.



I trust that you understood what I meant, and assume that you just 
wanted to be sheaky.
 


> 
> Why do you insist that sails were not used in the Baltic in the 6th 
century.
> 
> Have you got any proof? We have discussed this earlier.


Soeren on the Germanic list is very knowledgeable regarding ships and 
he explained that their is no evidence that sails have been used in 
the 6th century on the Baltic Sea (including the coast outside 
Vaestergoetland). Perhaps on freight ships, but even that is 
speculation. 



> 
> Some of the large "skeppssättningar" stoneships must have used 
sails 
> or rather their originals.
> 


Well, as you imply these are outlines of ships made with stones. 
Nothing can be derived about the possible means of locomotion of the 
real boats from that. 




> They date to 8th-5th century BC
> 


I think at this early time it is resonably safe to dismiss the use of 
sails on the Baltic Sea (including the coast outside Vaestergoetland).

I really wonder, why you feel it necessary to attack my argument, but 
find nothing wrong with Ingemar's proposition that the established 
dating of this rune stone should be changed, because the rider on the 
stone wears what (with some imagination) might be seen as a Phrygian 
cap, which might have been worn by Goths in Italy. Could it be 
because Ingemar's proposition fits your theories, why mine doesn't? 

Dirk



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