[gothic-l] Late Roman Empire Weakness (Including Cavalry Failure)

[Bertil Haggman]

Thank you for your detailed reply to my latest contribution.
I like to bring up Chapter 17 of Jones book. It is
analysing the literary evidence. I concur with his
outlook on the late Roman empire. The army was
dominated by Goths and other non-Roman officers.
The demilitarized citizens of the empire could no longer
be coerced or cajoled into military service. The army
was of course not totally ineffective and in numbers
was still fairly large.

But it is not uncommon that historians and politicians
make incorrect evaluation of the strength of an
army based on numbers only.

There was a massive need of replacements, and further
troops to battle the usurpers who appeared in many
parts of the empire. These replacements were to a
great extent Goths, who soon came to dominate many units
and then the higher command. Certain groups exploited
their privileged positions. For example Alaric and the Goths
to capture Rome in 410 AD and the successful creation
of a Visigothic kingdom in southern Gaul.

Gainas the Goth was less successfull in Constantinople, where
the greater diversity of military resources (for the time being
managed to overcome the Goths.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion based on your readings
Certainly the downfall of the Roman Empire might have had
other reasons. The failure of the economy (as you menttion
"largely economic and administrative") but this does not
exclude the possibility referred to by Professor Quigley
in his book "The Evolution of Civilizations".

I have not claimed that the weakness of cavalry was
"a major factor" but only pointed out that Quigley saw
cavalry and the lack of efficient agriculture as result of
a more effective use of the soil north of the Alps.

No, I wasn't expecting so much detail on the late 5th
century AD but maybe you could help in providing. More
details on cavalry strength around 400 to 476 AD seem
not to be available so I cannot see why you are so
sure of your point of view.

I also note that you concur conderning the strategic
weakness of the late Roman Empire as a factor.

Concering the _Storm over Europe_-series book I will
be happy at a later stage to provide more on views
of the prominent scholars who participated in creating both
the book and the TV-series.

No, I am quite confident in replying at once to your
contribution and will be happy to provide more material
on the basic question of the downfall of the Roman Empire.
For the time being I think I have the answers I need.
Thank you very much. Wishing you a pleasant Easter.

Bertil Haggman

> Your claim was that the late Roman army was weak in
> cavalry and this this tactical deficiency was a major
> factor in the fall of the West

> You were expecting the names, addresses and phone
> numbers of all the late Roman cavalry troopers between
> 376 and 476 AD perhaps?  You asked for some figures,
> which are of course going to be estimates, and I gave them
> to you.

> Strategic weakness was a factor.  You're alleging a particular
> tactical weakness, though without providing any evidence.
>
> > It is well known that a few
> > of the participants on the list want to ignore that the late
> > Roman empire collapsed, due to failing in the armies, which
> > were non-Roman anyway.

> And that's nonsense.

> > Jones, A.H.M., :The Later Roman Empire, 284-602_
> > 4 vols, Norman: University of Oklahoma.


> > Nicasie, M.J., _Twilight of Empire_ Amsterdam. Gieben, 1998

> So you've read the material I've recommended already then?
> In what way is it flawed?  Where is your counter evidence?



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