[gothic-l] Gothic word for wicca, and wicce

[Aaron Holt]

Hello Hello!

<<M. Carver Wrote.
The word seems to use the third part of the ablaut gradation here (iu - au - u), which is why Grimm postulated
*walakusjo, similar to the way runjo "course" is related to rinnan "to run", or numja "taker" to niman "to take", or
for that matter (using a s2 verb for example) drus to driusan. It is clear that the ON valkyrja also uses the third
part of the gradation (with i-mutation), and not the first part, which would have resulted in something like ON
*valky'rja (with lengthened y).>>

    Akh! I agree with this, I found the same thing in my own notes! It seems that I don't even listen to myself!


<<I wonder about the correctness of PGmc *wikkjaz "necromancer" [< waker] (for also cf. ON vitki 'wizard', vitka
'bewitch' - are these analogical emendations?). Watkins only says Germanic, not PGmc, though it should be the latter
because of the absence of Sievers. Z-dele. only affects -s-az or -z-az, otherwise there is Z-devoi. It seems Go.
*wikkis should require a LGmc *wikkes. Allow me to suggest Gmc. *wikkjaz > *wikkijaz > EG *wikkijz + Sievers reflex
> Go. *wikkeis /wikki|s/ (not *wikkjis, because of the long foot stem). Want to attempt the feminine?>>

    Watkins, In his preface to the IED. States that the forms are PrGmc. but has turnicated the name to simply "Germanic" in his entries. 
    I wonder myself about the corectness of such a form, however, there seems to be little room for cross-referencing as that particular word usage is only attested in OE (to my knowledge) the etym. was something like "Necromancer" < one who wakes the dead) < (waker), I must admit that I believe this is Watkins' assertion rather than expository semantic reference since aside from OE... well, you know the rest.
My claim for Z-Deletion was drawn from J. Voyles' "Early Germanic Grammar" He seems to break Devoicing and Deletion into two sub-categories of one Z-Deletion rule. I probably should have been more specific and thourough in my reconstruction, I don't entirely understand Sievers Law the ablaut rule, I am self-taught so it's a hard to get past those trouble spots when they arise. (I went to Art School as a Graphic Design major, whie Germanic and IE studies heve been a hobby since High School) 
    Also, why the geminated k's in Wikkjaz? I thought that this was a characteristic of the daughter languages.  What's more, Watkins also has PrGmc. reconstructions like Huzdam "horde" and Gumo|n "man" elswhere I have seen Huzda and Gumo|, why the final nasals? is this a difference from Proto-Germanic to Germanic? I am in a jam when it comes to Proto-Germanic Forms, I can't find a good resource anywhere.

    I would be delighted to try the feminine, I'll do my research and send the mesage when I can get back to my computer.

-Aaron





  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: M. Carver 
  To: gothic-l at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 6:26 PM
  Subject: Re: [gothic-l] Gothic word for wicca, and wicce



  Hails!

  Aaron Holt wrote:

  >
  > I also mostly agree with Grimm's reconstructed *Walakusjo, however I think
  > it may have been more like **Walakiusjo  since the Gothic word for "to
  > choose" is Kiusan with an I before the u (note that this is an infinitive so
  > the suffix is different)

  The word seems to use the third part of the ablaut gradation here (iu - au - u), which is why Grimm postulated
  *walakusjo, similar to the way runjo "course" is related to rinnan "to run", or numja "taker" to niman "to take", or
  for that matter (using a s2 verb for example) drus to driusan. It is clear that the ON valkyrja also uses the third
  part of the gradation (with i-mutation), and not the first part, which would have resulted in something like ON
  *valky'rja (with lengthened y).



  >
  >  as for a cognate for Wicca/Wicce Here is what Calvert Watkins says on the
  > matter.
  > -Wicca (masc.) Wicce (fem.)  along with wicked (I was wrong about there
  > being no ModEng. cognate) are derived from the IE root, *weg- meaning to be
  > strong or lively, from there we have the above mentioned OE forms, meaning
  > "wizard" and then a reconstructed PrGmc *wikkjaz, "necromancer" ("one who
  > wakes the dead").-
  > so to find a Gothic equivalent, lets do a little reconstruction of our own,
  > (the word hasn't survived to my knowledge in any extant Gothic text) we know
  > that from Proto-Germanic times to Gothic times there were a few important
  > shifts which would effect our word.
  > First there was the word stress rule which shifted stress to the initial
  > syllable in most of the daughter languages of Proto-Germanic.  This affected
  > the suffix in that it was not pronounced as definitely, which turns our word
  > into an "East Germanic" sounding *wikkjz. then there was the "z-deletion"
  > rule which devoiced or completely deleted (depending on environment) the
  > sound z. Many Gothic forms preserve the Proto-Germanic suffix -az as -s (-az
  > > -z > -s) so its safe to say that the form is now *wikkjs, but the last
  > change that we have to consider is the Gothic reflex of Sievers law which
  > affects Proto-Germanic -ja class nouns (note *wikk-jaz.  The -ja is a
  > subclass of the -a class) by placing an i before the j. Gothic has a reflex
  > of this rule turning the Proto-Germanic -j- into an -i- before the -s
  > since -js is usually an illegal combination in the word final position.  So
  > now we have a hypothetical Gothic *Wikkis, whose meaning we can, never be
  > too sure of apart from a general feeling of wizardry.
  > I hope my nonsense is of some help to someone
  >
  > -Aaron

  I wonder about the correctness of PGmc *wikkjaz "necromancer" [< waker] (for also cf. ON vitki 'wizard', vitka
  'bewitch' - are these analogical emendations?). Watkins only says Germanic, not PGmc, though it should be the latter
  because of the absence of Sievers. Z-dele. only affects -s-az or -z-az, otherwise there is Z-devoi. It seems Go.
  *wikkis should require a LGmc *wikkes. Allow me to suggest Gmc. *wikkjaz > *wikkijaz > EG *wikkijz + Sievers reflex
  > Go. *wikkeis /wikki|s/ (not *wikkjis, because of the long foot stem). Want to attempt the feminine?

  ---
  C. Watkins says:
  "weg- To be strong, be lively. Oldest form *wegh-, becoming *weg- in centum languages. Derivatives include watch,
  vigilante, reveille, and velocity.
      1. Suffixed o-grade form *wog--. wake1, from Old English wacan, to wake up, arise, and wacian, to be awake, from
  Germanic *wakn. 2. Suffixed o-grade form *wog-no-. waken, from Old English wæcnan, wæcnian, to awake, from Germanic
  *waknan. 3. watch, from Old English wæccan, to be awake, from Germanic *wakjan. 4. Suffixed form *weg-yo-. Wicca,
  wicked, witch; bewitch, from Old English wicca,
                      sorcerer, wizard (feminine wicce, witch), from Germanic *wikkjaz, necromancer (< "one who wakes
  the dead")."
  ---

  -Matthew


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