[gothic-l] Re: Jutes and Goths

[Ravi Chaudhary]

---I don't think anyone is really suggesting there was wholesale 
migration form the East ((or the west or north for that matter,) and 
the local populace just disappeared.

  The earlier thinking that these people called the Goths, came from 
Scandinavia, does not appear to hold, and the people called the Goths 
are found in the East broadly around what is now Austria, The 
Balkans, Poland, and more east.

 Some think that some clans from the North came east and the term 
then included them as well as a motley group of other local  
tribes/clans who allied with them.

This could be true.

Then the movement the other way is also possible, and people could 
have carried the Gut/Jut name across the North and East. with all the 
variations,  Got, Gott, jut, jutes, gut, gutae, Jutt, which with  
later palatization  as Francisc has pointed out changes to a softer' 
Goth.'

The confusion coming in part for the references to these people are 
to the period 3rf to 6th century AD.

The time line others are  referring to be an earlier time, when the 
word is  the harder T  sound  Gut, Got, Gott, and that could well be 
a few centuries or more BCE.

 The process need not  be from the East and not the North. They could 
very be movements back to the east too.

Language will change.

The Huns for example.

 The groups who spread to the West and East into India have a similar 
history- domination for some time, and then a settling down periods, 
followed by assimilation.

Even the name- what is the hard  T "ATTILA"  becomes ATHILA or ATHLA.

The latter two versions  `Athila' and `Athla' are still found among 
the Jats in North India.

Yet if we dig further in their history, we find they are part of the 
same Saka, Jat, Getae, stock, that got broadly referred to as 
Scythinans.

  The names as Sunny indicates out got indianized. A new language, 
local, got adopted,.

 Gut, got replaced by Gupta, and two major dynasties (one of 
Alexander's time, the Chandragupta Maurya dynasty and the 2nd 3rd to 
6th century – Gupta dynasties as an example.

Their early seals show the name as " Gut- asya," i.e. "of the Gut"



 There is a broader picture.

 It is also fair to examine only the history of the " Goths' of the 
3rd to 6th century AD in Europe, for after that they disappear.

Well they do not disappear, but references to them cease.
 

Then by itself, if the Getae move west (and East), and if the 
movement   is dominated by a people who call them selves Jit, Git, 
Get, GU, Jut, that word can stick in the mind of the chronicler, and 
once it starts getting used, it influences the future historians, 
much as Dirk thinks that Wolfram and Christensen will influence 
future historians.

Equally, thanks to the power of the Internet, their ideas will get a 
wide publicity, and be discussed (with pleasure and much fun) by all 
of us.

Ravi




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