[gothic-l] Literary History - Gotho/Getae/Geats

[hrafnsnest]

Good Day to All,
	Thought I would chime in on this as well.  Interesting 
discussion on the Getae / Gothic ethno-mystery.  Sunny or Ravi, I'm 
not in disagreement with your search for possible truths, or at least 
a good hypothesis on this matter, I do feel though that Dirk is right 
when he points out the facts about literary interpretation, or rather 
the history thereof.  So in that vein, I thought I would post the 
following observations from a booklet that I have written on the 
challenges of interpretation.

Valulfr


"Around the time that the tribes living north of the Black Sea are 
being called Scythians collectively.  Both Pliny (d. 79 CE), Mela, 
and others describe the region of the Black Sea, northwards to and 
including the lands that border the North and Baltic Seas, 
as "Scythia".  Statius (d. 96 CE) makes reference to "the Boreas (the 
northern lights) swooping down from the Getic Bear".  This is 
important, as it will shape the views of scholars and geographical 
historians regarding the origins of the Scandinavian tribes."
	
"The Getae were feared by all. The Greeks began to refer to them as 
Scythians, to the Romans, Dacians.  Several other ancient writers 
equate them with the giants or Titans.  All of this is, and will be, 
important because it is to be remembered that the Goths 
will "migrate" into this quagmire of tribes and the beliefs about 
those tribes."

"The medieval mind thrived on these types of associations, 
unfortunately corrupting the literary record with the twists and 
turns of a serpent.  In the Middle Ages, it was commonplace to make 
connections between known peoples and events, with Greek legends, 
myths, and history."

"By the time of the Gothic migrations into the area, they quickly 
become synonymous with the Getae.  This is a critical point in the 
historical literary traditions of the Middle Ages.  From this point 
forward, the Goths get poured into that caldron of name-shift and 
association.  Julian the Apostate (d. 363 CE), Roman Emperor, 
scholar, mystic, was the first to use Getae for Gothi.  Alaric, a 
Gothic King, is called "tyrannus Geticus" by Prudentius.  It was a 
sign of learning in the 4th – 6th cent. CE to use Getic/Getae for 
Gothi/Goth.  Cassiodorus' work, now lost, refers to the Goths as 
Getae.  Theodoric, the celebrated Gothic King, refers to the Getae 
and Scythians in the genealogy of the Royal House of Amal, to which 
he was a descendent.  Jordanes also equates the Goths and Getae 
(IX.58).  In the early part of his work he has the Goths coming from 
Scandinavia, and the Getae from Thrace and Scythia.  This is 
accomplished by moving back the period of the southward migration to 
the remote past, before the Trojan war."

"It was also during this time period that the Goths are equated with 
figures from Biblical mythology, namely the two grandsons of Noah, 
Gog and Magog.  This comes about because of the identification of the 
Scythians as being descendants of Magog by Josephus Flavius (93 CE).  
Approximately  185 years later, the Goths are identified as "Scythian 
Sauromatae (Sarmatian)", and thereby descendants of Gog/Magog.  
Ambrose (4th cent. CE), is reported to have consoled Emperor Gratian, 
promising him that God would grant the Romans victory over "Gog iste 
Gothus".  Jerome (392 CE) introduces this "antidote"; "all earlier 
scholars had called the Goths Getae rather than Gog and Magog".  In 
fact, the spelling gets corrupted to "Goth and Magoth". 
	"Because of these associations, a dark and sinister cloud 
began to descend upon the aforementioned peoples.  In the Revelation 
of John 20.7, Gog and Magog, or in the minds of Medieval historians, 
Goth and Magoth, are allied with the Satanic forces of the Anti-
Christ that will come to reek havoc in the "end times".  The reports 
of the customs of these tribes only fed their imaginations – being 
inhuman, bloodthirsty, living on human flesh and blood, mice, 
serpents, the flesh of corpses, and the unborn.  Their children are 
born into a world of ice and snow, they are not raised on the breast, 
but on an open wound of a horse, and when old age is reached it was a 
disgrace not to end it with the sword."









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